Overcalling Donk Bets Every Street With 2nd Pair

[CoranMoran 0]

When I play a hand passively, I get confused.How would you play this?Please advse.--CMNote:Life is a lot easier with reads.Let's make this more difficult and assume I'm new to the table.====================Poker StarsLimit Holdem Ring gameLimit: $2/$46 playersConverterPre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with 8 A UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, Hero raises, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, CO calls.Flop: 8 T 5 (8.5SB, 4 players)BB bets, UTG+1 calls, CO folds, Hero calls.Turn: T (5.75BB, 3 players)BB bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.River: 2 (8.75BB, 3 players)BB bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.Results:Final pot: 11.75BB

[antistuff 0]

is this situation really all that different from this - http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...howtopic=126509 ?

[wrto4556 0]

i think it's different enough for a new thread.This one I would just muck preflop. Isoing one guy I might try and pull it off, sad thing is, it's hard to iso in a lot of games.As played i would probably raise/muck the turn.

[CobaltBlue 662]

This one I would just muck preflop. Isoing one guy I might try and pull it off, sad thing is, it's hard to iso in a lot of games.

I may be too nitty in this situation, but that's exactly what I was thinking.Also, I don't mind this call-call-call here at all.

[CobaltBlue 662]

Decided to run some equities that I think support call-call-call...BB range: 99-55,ATs,A8s,A5s,KTs,K8s,K5s,Q8s+,J8s+,T2s+,97s+,86s+,76s,ATo,A8o,A5o,KTo,K8o,QTo,Q8o,J8o+,T6o+,97o+,76oUTG+1 range: 77-66,A8s,A5s,K8s,Q8s,J8s,T9s,98s,86s+,A8o,A5o,K8o,98o,87oFlopBB 51%UTG+1 14%Hero 35%TurnBB 50%UTG+1 8%Hero 41%RiverBB 41%UTG+1 5%Hero 53%

[looshle 6]

I raise the turn and evaluate river for v bet.

[antistuff 0]

I may be too nitty in this situation, but that's exactly what I was thinking.Also, I don't mind this call-call-call here at all.

i've noticed that call-call-call is the new raise-raise-raisepeople just make so many dark tunnel bluffs out of nowhere.if you start raising them you win lots of small pots when they fold but then lose the big ones when they have a hand and raise you back.

[CobaltBlue 662]

i've noticed that call-call-call is the new raise-raise-raisepeople just make so many dark tunnel bluffs out of nowhere.if you start raising them you win lots of small pots when they fold but then lose the big ones when they have a hand and raise you back.

Given the lack of reads, I don't see why we want to raise the turn instead of seeing showdown for the same price (which in turn will help us develop those reads). I don't think we're losing much (if any) value. Also, if we raise/fold this turn, it's going to be really kind of annoying for our image. Not saying we couldn't exploit it...but it definitely will have an impact. And who's to say the guy doesn't get overzealous and 3-bet us with a monster draw? I see people cap turns at least every now and then with semi-bluffs.

[wrto4556 0]

"Given the lack of reads, I don't see why we want to raise the turn instead of seeing showdown for the same price (which in turn will help us develop those reads)."The only reason I would call downwp

[antistuff 0]

"Given the lack of reads, I don't see why we want to raise the turn instead of seeing showdown for the same price (which in turn will help us develop those reads)."The only reason I would call downwp

becouse with reads you will be able to either make a fold or raise for value?

[looshle 6]

becouse with reads you will be able to either make a fold or raise for value?

Right. You are drawing dead to anything that 3 bets besides 55. If you aren't 3 bet, against most people you can get an extra bet in on the river.You charge the J9,QJ,79 hands etc.Why is everyone so afraid of being outplayed? They can't see your cards.

[Zach6668 513]

Why is everyone so afraid of being outplayed? They can't see your cards.

Sorry, I gotta get that out of my system... too much time spent on AP.

[CoranMoran 0]

wrto4556 Posted Saturday, August 2nd, 2008, 12:24 AM This one I would just muck preflop.

Interesting.The idea never crossed my mind.I have a Mid-Ace on the button against 2 limpers.Surely, my hand is already best here a lot.What do I fear?A bigger Ace or a pair above my 8 seems unlikely.And my position should allow me to play the hand more easily even if I am behind.I honestly don't think I have ever folded A8 in position over limpers.But I appreciate the different perspective.--cm

[wrto4556 0]

Your ace and your 8 are going to be good if you can flop right and you have position, but we are going to be playing A8o 3-4 ways a lot of the time, which means continuation bets on a lot of boards where we can easily be drawing to 3 outs. It's just too weak. Plenty of overcards to an 8. I could think of a few reasons to fold.Was talking with Steve and Cobaltblue and they muck here, too, fwiw.

[CobaltBlue 662]

I have a Mid-Ace on the button against 2 limpers.Surely, my hand is already best here a lot.What do I fear?A bigger Ace or a pair above my 8 seems unlikely.

I see people limp with better hands than A8o all the time...maybe it's just the games that I play, but here are ranges that I don't consider "unreasonable"...UTG+1: 22+,A2s+,K9s+,Q9s+,J9s+,T8s+,98s,87s,76s,A8o+,KTo+,QTo+,J9o+,T9o (30.3%)CO: TT-22,AQs-A2s,K9s+,Q9s+,J9s+,T8s+,98s,87s,76s,AQo-A8o,KTo+,QTo+,J9o+,T9o (27.3%)Hero: A8o (21.3%)BB: random (21.1%)Yeah, our position and FE might make up for the worse equity, but I still don't think it's really worth playing. Give me A8s and bump my equity to 25.3% and I'm much more amenable.