Full Tilt 5/10 Hold'em (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7 , 5 . UTG posts a blind of $5.
4 folds, Hero calls, UTG (poster) checks.

Flop: (2 SB) 8 , 4 , 5 (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, UTG calls.

Turn: (3 BB) T (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero calls.

River: (7 BB) 6 (3 players)
Hero....

Final Pot: 9 BB


whats my line on the river?
i assume im gonna hear some fold preflops and fold the turns

PF action is ****ed.

Can I assume you were the SB, and poster in this hand was the BB?

i think so.

it couldve been the way the converter has it but the converter is a player short.
i think it was SB/BB

i prefer to lead out the flop.

As played, donk the river. If he has a pair, he's calling. I assume this is an unknown? Meaning, there isn't much of a guarantee that he'll valuebet whatever he has on the river. You don't want him checking behind.

Preflop:

I fold.
Every single time.

Why would we ever want to play 75 heads up out of position?
why? why? why?
I think people feel the need to "defend" their small blinds way too often.

If we knew that BB never raised our preflop limp,
and that he played postflop incredibly loose-passively,
then maybe.
But we certainly don't know that.

Flop:

In general, I like to lead heads-up flops.
We have more fold equity on the flop with a bet than a check-raise.
Because once Villain invests a bet on the flop, he will almost always call the raise to see the next street.
And we would love for him to fold immediately.

Plus, if he checks behind with J2 and hits his over on the turn, we are going to feel foolish.


Turn:

You have a lot of partial outs.
It is possible you could be ahead.
I call the raise.


River:

I expect Villain to check down here a whole lot of the time.
I lead out to guarantee 1 bet.

--CM

CM, if this were a 2/3 structure in a 3/6 game like on AP, would you still be folding?

From the small blind's perspective, I view a 2/3 structure as basically already in the big blind.
So I would be limping often.
And would not fold this.

What is the blind structure in this 5/10 game?
If it is 3/5, then this changes things slightly.
Though I would still always fold from the small blind with 75.
If it is 2/5, then I am even more confused as to why OP would ever consider calling this preflop.




--cm

Ugly preflop hand, I fold this.

Hard to say where you are on the flop, but when the 3 flush comes and your opponent raises the turn??? Is he tricky?

Probably lead the river, and make a crying call of a raise.

This is a river you have to lead. The board is scary enough for your opponent to check back often enough that checking first to act is less profitable then just betting out.

I'm not exactly sure what's going on preflop, but if you're completing here, you're only playing correctly against a very small number of very specific players. If you've decided to play the hand, and the BB defends h/u too infrequently- or plays too tight/weak postflop- then raise and c-bet to show more equity than the lame line you take.


Wang

Rise,

I think you are showing a results bias in your posts lately.

lol

**************

CM,

In a 2/5, or even a 3/5 structure, would 75 sooted be any different?

I agree with you about 2/3 structures, I usually treat the SB as if I'm already in for a full bet. I tend to comlete with any two if there's a limper or two already. The only time I fold pf out of the SB is if it's a terrible hand, and/or the BB is a strong player, or just defends liberally, which means I'd have to make a better hand to win.

Why isn't there more talk about raising vs. completing here? Unless he's solid-aggressive or very loose, raising and betting seems like a much better option than just calling here, doesn't it? Even if he's calling 100% of the time preflop, he'd have to be willing to call the flop (and turn) with trash alot to make calling a better decision than raising.

Ya Wang, you're right.

I was just considering "playing" not exactly how I'd play it. I raise a lot vs most players. Some players who I know will check, I'll just limp, though. The biggest problem is vs players who know how to play their position; the ones who will raise any two in the BB when the SB limps, and essentially forces you to hit a flop if you're the SB, because he's always betting the flop.

I really hate playing hands out of the SB to be honest with you. I think out of the players on AP, I'm comfortable playing SB vs BB hands when I'm SB with less than half of them. Like some guys are tight, so they're good. Others defend like crazy, so they're hard to play against, and others just suck too much, and make super loose calls, which makes the proposed style of raising/betting flop really bad unless we have showdown value, and we dont' with hands like this UI, because they'll call and see the turn forcing us to fire once more, or just give up. There's been so many of these hands where I've tried this vs an unknown, bet flop, bet turn, check river and they check behind with like J-high or something like that.

I'm rambling.

No, I understand what you're saying. Playing against a good player from the SB is maddeningly tough, and you'll often both work to create a very big pot with total air.

A player I used to respect and I had some of the greatest SB/BB battles ever. He knew my raising range from the SB was wide, so his 3-betting range was ultra wide, and my capping range was... well, 95% of my raising hands. If I entered the pot with a raise from the SB, there were at least 6 BB going into the pot postflop, no matter what. And when he was to my right, the roles were reversed. We talked about it once, and explicitly agreed to "chop" everytime it was headsup blind-vs.-blind, because it was taking like 3 weeks off our lives everytime we got involved in a hand, and completely ruined our respective table-images. We were showing down in 10BB pots with A7 and A4, no pair on a KQJ52 board and stuff, so we just decided to keep track of the blinds we gave up to the other player.

I think I had a small edge on him, but it was stupidly small, and could have just been some kind of sample thing, so I was perfectly willing to compromise. I still have nightmares about having to call down with Q-hi and losing to bottom pair and stuff.


Wang

Been a while since I've peeked into the limit forum.

Heads up, I do not add significant value to my hand based on the suit.



Agreed.
I would respect an open-raise with trash a lot moer than an open-limp.

--cm