villain is TAG, 21%/11%/1.63


Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $1/$2
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $170.55
CO: $203.75
Button: $59.70
SB: $307.95
Hero: $147.90

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is BB with Q K
UTG raises to $7, 3 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: 4 9 T ($15, 2 players)
Hero bets $12, UTG calls.

Turn: T ($39, 2 players)
Hero bets $26, UTG raises to $70, Hero????

Naismith says: Reraise all in.

i probably check raise the turn all i n

i thought the exact same thing.

What do you all think he is raising the turn with, but not the flop?

Cwik, you planned to bet/ 3-bet the flop all in?

I bet $20 on the flop to see what I'm dealing with.

Not quite sure why it is so important to over bet the flop here to find out where I am on a hand where I already know I have to improve to win.



I think I might shove here, but I really don't know. I do know that I lose more money with KQs and JTs than any other hand. I think I over play them.

OK, back up. What hand are you putting the villain on?

theres no reason to bet out 20 on the flop like that. also you have not yet seen the villian do anything other then a preflop raise at this point in the hand, so that question is meaningless, as the range is wide preflop.

Right -- I don't like where the light flop bet leaves us. We're getting pressure and we have one card to catch our draw on a paired board. We went from powerful on the flop to tenuous at the very best on the turn.

lol, not sure when a 4/5 pot bet became a 'light flop bet', guess that was my problem all along.

hahaha, no the flop bet is fine, i dont now what mtdesmoines is saying here. i think ideally you hope he raises your flop bet so then you jam it up and hope to either hit 12 to 18 outs or make him lay down. since he flat called, i think a check raise is the best play on the turn.

I'm curious, but what does a turn c/r accomplish?

Our equity falls considerably, obv as I'm sure you all know... do we think we can get him to fold better hands? Or are we just hoping he checks it through so we can see the river free?

either option is ideal right? and yes i do think a turn check raise can get better hands to fold.

Yeah ok. The more I think about it the more I like it. It's a twicky play with the board pairing, I think you could probably even fold an overpair there, right?

And we're usually never way behind, although he could have boated up, but it's probably a small part of his range, I'd think.

well look at the action and the board.

1 - villain raise preflop.

2 - board brings flush / straight draws, and we fire. he only calls.

3 - His call is either very weak, or very strong. if he has Top set, why isnt he raising us?

4 - a 10 turn. now if he has top set, he has quads., if he has mid set he has a boat. 2 hands which would want you to catch something on the river. Hate to sound like Rounders, but that would be his money card, and he would easily check the turn if thats the case.
If he fires out the turn with quads or a boat, thats crazy. Then it becomes read dependent. Would villain really bet a made hand when checked too?

which brings us to the check/raise, which is why, IF villain bets when checked too, he cant possibly have a strong enough hand to call a shovel. which gives us lots of FE, while still having lots of outs if he does call with 8,8 or AK

Do we have to bet out on this flop? I mean, I can see some reason for it...just not my style, I guess. I'd normally either c/c or c/r right there.

really? leading there is really standard for me. I don't hate the c/r, but this is not a super aggressive opponent so I don't see why to take this line.

Are you not from the bet your strong hands/bet your draws camp?

I'm from the rarely randomly take the lead camp. That's partially a product of punishing the hell out of people when they randomly try to take the lead. It might not always be the best camp to be in...but it works pretty well for me. I'd much prefer to c/r both draws and strong hands in this HU situation. Now when we're more multi-handed, I'm much more likely to bet out.

I think if Hero leads 44, 99 and 910 into this flop, then leading is ok. I agree with you in that I prefer to C/R in this spot as opposed to lead just cause I think it has a better chance of taking it down with greater frequency, however, at 200NL-, these flop donk bets get played back at pretty frequently.

While I'd bet a full-house on the turn, I wouldn't flat call two pair or a set on the flop (like you pointed out).

I think the hands that call a check-raise on the turn are overpairs or tens. We're around a 3 : 1 dog if we're called. I don't think this is a bad play, but it relies on the villain folding a lot.