So I played some 6/12 at the Borgata yesterday. I had a tight image, although I was running pretty bad, when this hand came up. There were 3 limpers, the SB completed, and I raised with AcKc in the BB. Everyone called, which was expected.
Flop: Jc Js 7c
SB checks, I lead, EP folds, MP raises. This guy was a stereotypical passive calling station, the raise meant it was very likely he had a jack. Button folds, SB cold-calls two bets. This guy was limping in about 95% of hands, but he usually shut down post-flop when he missed. I called.
Turn: 8d
SB checks, I check, MP bets, SB raises. The last time I saw him raise on either the turn or the river was the first hand I saw at the table and the SB ended up having a full house. My action???? I guess the question is whether or not a loose/passive player has to have a full house to pull a check-raise here.
Full Version: 6/12 Live At The Borgata
He probably doesnt need to have a full house here to c/r but it is definitly a possible and he always has atleast trips giving you 7 outs at best. We are getting 5.5-1 to call without closing the action with a guy that you say probably also has a jack. Given that we need almost all of our outs to be good here or to have implied odds on the river if we hit, which we dont have since we will be scared of a full house, to warrant a call getting 5.5-1 I think this is a fold. At the table I would probably call though.
If we do call and MP calls what do we do on a club river? Does it matter if its a 9+ club or a low ragged club.
Edit - We have at best 6 outs on turn since 8 of clubs is dead too making this an easier fold.
If we do call and MP calls what do we do on a club river? Does it matter if its a 9+ club or a low ragged club.
Edit - We have at best 6 outs on turn since 8 of clubs is dead too making this an easier fold.
I agree. I reluctantly fold.
a made straight would be very interested in getting you to see two bets.
So lets give him that too, sometimes
We at best get: 6:1 to call the turn.
When MP does not 3-bet, we *know* we are drawing live.
In NL it's an easy fold
But here, it's not knowing whether we can raise a flush that makes it lean to a fold.
You are live a good deal of the time but capitalizing on it is tough
If it's 3bet though your effective odds are < 5:1 which is no good with trips likely out.
I'm all over the place; but given your reads, I fold too, with possible 3 more bets to call and so close to breakeven and lack of pos on the river and information when you hit
So lets give him that too, sometimes
We at best get: 6:1 to call the turn.
When MP does not 3-bet, we *know* we are drawing live.
In NL it's an easy fold
But here, it's not knowing whether we can raise a flush that makes it lean to a fold.
You are live a good deal of the time but capitalizing on it is tough
If it's 3bet though your effective odds are < 5:1 which is no good with trips likely out.
I'm all over the place; but given your reads, I fold too, with possible 3 more bets to call and so close to breakeven and lack of pos on the river and information when you hit
QUOTE (Actuary @ Monday, May 21st, 2007, 11:21 PM) 
a made straight would be very interested in getting you to see two bets.
So lets give him that too, sometimes
We at best get: 6:1 to call the turn.
When MP does not 3-bet, we *know* we are drawing live.
In NL it's an easy fold
But here, it's not knowing whether we can raise a flush that makes it lean to a fold.
You are live a good deal of the time but capitalizing on it is tough
If it's 3bet though your effective odds are < 5:1 which is no good with trips likely out.
I'm all over the place; but given your reads, I fold too, with possible 3 more bets to call and so close to breakeven and lack of pos on the river and information when you hit
So lets give him that too, sometimes
We at best get: 6:1 to call the turn.
When MP does not 3-bet, we *know* we are drawing live.
In NL it's an easy fold
But here, it's not knowing whether we can raise a flush that makes it lean to a fold.
You are live a good deal of the time but capitalizing on it is tough
If it's 3bet though your effective odds are < 5:1 which is no good with trips likely out.
I'm all over the place; but given your reads, I fold too, with possible 3 more bets to call and so close to breakeven and lack of pos on the river and information when you hit
Im not sure why we know this?
QUOTE (Moneyball16 @ Monday, May 21st, 2007, 9:31 PM)
Im not sure why we know this?
I have no idea.
Hmmm, sorry.
It probably means he doesn't have a boat at least.
Yeah, dumb.
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