this is an omaha hilo 9 man sng sattelite with one place paying a seat and 2nd giving buyin back. Sorry convertor won't work for me. I just want anyone good at omaha hilo to help me figure out what the heck happened here. Strangest hand I've ever seen.

Stage #755628504 Tourney ID 1538973 Omaha Hi/Lo Single Tournament Pot Limit $50 - 2007-05-21 17:41:04 (ET)
Table: 1058269 (Real Money) Seat #7 is the dealer
Seat 2 - PACO691 ($6020 in chips)
Seat 4 - JIMMY309 ($3755 in chips)
Seat 7 - TAYLORCM ($1790 in chips)
Seat 9 - LITLEBULLET ($1935 in chips)
LITLEBULLET - Posts small blind $25
PACO691 - Posts big blind $50
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to LITLEBULLET [7s 9c 3h 5c]
JIMMY309 - Calls $50
TAYLORCM - Folds
LITLEBULLET - Raises $175 to $200
PACO691 - Calls $150
JIMMY309 - Calls $150
*** FLOP *** [Qd Kc 9h]
LITLEBULLET - Checks
PACO691 - Bets $600
JIMMY309 - Raises $2000 to $2000
LITLEBULLET - Folds
PACO691 - Calls $1400
*** TURN *** [Qd Kc 9h] [9s]
PACO691 - Checks
JIMMY309 - Bets $200
PACO691 - Calls $200
*** RIVER *** [Qd Kc 9h 9s] [2d]
PACO691 - Bets $150
JIMMY309 - All-In(Raise) $1355 to $1355
PACO691 - Folds
JIMMY309 - returned ($1205) : not called
*** SHOW DOWN ***
JIMMY309 - Does not show
JIMMY309 Collects $5300 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($5300)
Board [Qd Kc 9h 9s 2d]
Seat 2: PACO691 (big blind) Folded on the RIVER
Seat 4: JIMMY309 collected Total ($5300) All-In HI:($5300) [Does not show]
Seat 7: TAYLORCM (dealer) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 9: LITLEBULLET (small blind) Folded on the FLOP

It's very clearly written everywhere that if the converter is not working, you have to at least show some effort of following the rest of the rules; clean it up, make it look like a converted hand yourself, it doesn't take long. Seriously.

And here, the converter works for me....

Absolute Poker
Pot Limit Omaha Tournament
Blinds: t25/t50
4 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t3755
Button: t1790
Hero: t1935
BB: t6020

Pre-flop: (4 players) Hero is SB with 7 9 3 5
UTG calls t50 (pot was t75), Button folds, Hero raises to t200, BB calls t150 (pot was t275), UTG calls t150 (pot was t425).

Flop: Q K 9 (t600, 3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets t600, UTG raises to t2000, Hero folds, BB calls t1400 (pot was t3200).

Turn: 9 (t4600, 2 players)
BB checks, UTG bets t200, BB calls t200 (pot was t4800).

River: 2 (t5000, 2 players)
BB bets t150, UTG raises all-in t1355, BB folds.
Uncalled bets: t1205 returned to UTG.

Results:
Final pot: t5300



I really don't understand what's strange about this... except I hate your pf raise.

Your pre flop raise is just awful and you are beat on the flop. You should havent been in this hand

dont even complete the sb with that hand. maybe raise it on the button against a bunch of weak tighties, maybe. but probably not.

about the play preflop- I was just coming out of a rush heh. That hand makes so many straight draws though that's why I wanted to isolate or something and it was ccoming close to gamble time. What would you put them on was my question. There wasn't a flush draw on the flop, the straight flopped, and the 9 had to help all hands except for a gutshot straight draw to broadway. I was just baffled is all. Did bb chase a gutshot straight draw?

Every straight it makes is susceptible to a higher one. Every low it makes will lose to a lower low. Or something like that.

don't take this the wrong way, but if you're asking what happened in this hand you aren't good enough to play 3579.

a donk missed his draw, plain and simple.

but you can play 3579 (i do 75% of the time when i play plo8--not lo8) if you are good at isolation postflop, taking pots down uncontested, and making very good postflop reads. it's certainly not an outright "fold preflop."

ellll

I didn't realize the turn/river bets were so small compared to the pot, heh.

the way you talk about this game...

you should sit down in the $50 game for an hour or two one day and let me know when so i can sit in and watch you. then the next time im in chicago ill buy you a beer and a burger.

anything for a beer .

i play the 8/16 (sometimes, 15/30, but the 8 game is more than 2x as good usually, so i play that) LO8 game on ftp regularly. you're welcome to watch whenever you'd like. you're also welcome to post hands that may or may not make sense and i'd be glad to do my best to explain them.

as for the 50 plo8 game, i'm not sure that my extremely laggy plo8 style woud work very well there. the problem with playing at looser limits (for my style, not in general) is that isolation plays and pressure have A LOT less value--i'd imagine that after i adapted to the table properly i'd be playing relatively tight preflop and extremely aggressively postflop. generally, when i play a plo8 tournament, i play literally every hand that doesn't include trips from any position. when i play cash, however, the players are generally better postflop and i'll just play most hands that are reasonably connected and take position into account more often.

What I've been trying to do in Omaha lately is REALLY concentrate on starting hands. I think that's my biggest leak, and it sounds like it might be yours too.

Think of 3-5-7-9 in PLO H/L as Q/9 in NLHE. Sure it has fun possibilities, but it really isn't that strong of a hand.

i dont think its possible for being too loose preflop to be somebody's biggest problem in plo8.

I second the motion...


I'm not sure you should be trying to isolate. A drawing hand, especially a crap one like this, needs other people in the pot to pay you off when you do hit that miracle flop.




Sure it is, of all the things that are "possible", this is far from the bottom of the list.

as i said before, this is not a hand that a beginning or intermediate player can play in plo8. if someone is very good, however, and is able to make very good reads against players that are playing predictably or overly tight, pushing them off pots and isolating with hands that play significantly better HU than multiway (of which 3579 with a soot or two is one), then opening way up preflop is fine.

the basic issue here seems to be the one that most books write about in some form or another--ideally, your postflop decisions should be easy and concern very strong or nut type draws. in order to acheive this as often as possible, one needs to tighten up preflop considerably, and it's a good way to become very solid at o8. if, however, you want to become a very very strong and tricky o8 player (in either limit or PL forms), you are going to HAVE to open up your starting hands a lot or thinking players are going to know what you have far too often, decreasing the value you get when you win and extracting maximum value from you via perfectly sized bets.

you can beat most plo8 games through 5/10 or so by playing extremely solid. that's fine, people are bad at poker, generally, especially non-HE games. the thing is, though, if you want to be truly great, you just have to open up or you will stop getting paid off at higher levels. opening up will also allow you to win MORE at middle limits and at nitty low limit games, IF YOU DO IT PROPERLY. you can't just be limping into pots with 3579 expecting to flop gin--you have to be raising, sometimes reraising in position, etc. to apply pressure and acheive deception value against players that you can outplay postflop. if you play your cards and not the villain, then you cannot open up properly. if you switch that around a bit, you'll be fine playing almost any four cards.

if you want to test your postflop skill, i strongly suggest doing an exercise: at limit or PL, drop down 2-3 levels from where you normally play, sit at a 6max table, and force yourself to see LITERALLY EVERY flop unless your hand contains trips or quads (or you're calling 1/2 your stack preflop, etc.). if you can do that profitably (i promise you can at 90% of tables if you drop down), by learning how to bluff successfully, apply pressure, isolate for half pots, etc., you're good enough to start playing "odd-looking" hands that make non-nut hands because you'll know when the 3rd, 4th, 5th, or 12th nuts is good and extract maximum value from almost every hand you win (and bluff out a lot of pots where you don't have the best hand). the funny thing about learning to do that is how it gets you paid off in gold almost every time you do make a wheel or other strong 2-way hand. if you can acheive that kind of image as cheaply as possible while stacking off idiots almost every time you make a "legit" hand, you're good to go.