playing 1/2 in atlantic city, tropicana like it matters. I had sat down maybe 3-4 hours prior bought in for min. at $60 (i like to feel out the players b4 i get in a big hand. I'm in the ten seat and the guy in the one seat to the left of me and the dealer has almost a grand when i sat down.

At this point i had worked my stack up to nearly $800 by crushing the table, i can't even recall losing a pot at showdown or anything i went past the turn. The one seat (villian) stack hadn't changed much. He was leaving the table often to bet horses, smoke ciggarettes and pop pills (no lie).

He had also been raising big on the flop with top pair any kicker (which plays into my read). I had also been egging him on that i was ready for him to double me up and he was responding light heartedly like "sure, anytime"

To the hand.... I'm UTG +1 with pocket Jacks and raise to $11 (my normal opening raise) and got 5 callers including villian

The flop comes 10 7 9 rainbow (pot about $67)

I bet out $50 and villian automaticly pushes in two stacks of red for $200
while everyone one folds, his history is telling me A10 cause i seen him make several similar plays with that type hand. also his frequent absence from the table had him missing most of my showdowns, so he didn't know how solid i was playing.
I call rather quickly.

my JJ and his play had me nearly rule out the nut straight also thought if he had a big hand, like a set, he wouldn't mind a couple of the 4 others to come along.

The turn was a 7 leaving board of 10 7 9 7

I'm first to act but as soon as the turn is revealed he throws his arms up and lets out an audible sigh. I didn't think it was an act for a minute, he was obviously not plesed with the turn. Now i'm thinking he had 10 9 and now got counterfited.

I shove $500+ now wanting him to think his 10s and 9s might still be good.

He takes a long time to act...even shows me his hand to get a read (no chance at reading me)

I didn't mind if lost this hand when i made the shove because i was only in for $60. I also figured i had alot of fold equity and knew not having to show my hand would tilt him and get me much respect from the table to use to open up my game and run over everyone.

What do you guys think? And how would ya'll have played the hand?

I know its a long post. oh well what else do ya'll have to do but read?

First, you shouldn't post results. You even say that you lost the hand, but you didn't say what he had.

Also, if you're making plays based almost totally on your reads (as you assert) then there really isn't much strategy to be discussed becuase it comes down to specific things at the table that none of us could be there for.

Don't ever let the mentality of "I'm only in for $60 so if I donk of this $800 then I've really only lost $60" ever get into your head. You won the money, so don't be in a hurry to give it away.

Please don't say that he has "no chance of reading you" because it sounds unbelievably arrogant and is 100% inaccurate I'm sure. Everyone can be read, everyone has tells and you are no different.

As for his "loud sigh" on the turn, anything that players do that is that loud and that noticible is something that they want you to notice and is usually a terrible attempt to act weak or displeased with the turn card when he really loves it. It's more often a sign of strength than it is weakness.

Thats for the thoughtful post. You're mistaked on a few things and itys my fault. I made one edit to maybe clear it up. I wasn't putting results. I meant if i lost the hand, i also didn't mean just for my buy-in reason. I figured i had alot of fold equity and i didn't want to give on the hand and my table image. At worst case i lose the hand, but i was saying i could live with losing it.

Yes his audible sigh was not an act, i was very sure and if you saw it you would agree. It must have been the drugs and alcohol.

As far as me not being readable, yes i'm arrogant, also i've seen so many hands and played so much live that i don't care about results. I liked how i played the hand and could care less what he had at that point because i was finished with that hand and was really just ready to play the next one.

I would like to know how others would have played the head. All the reads that i were going off of i included in the original post, why its so long. I think i gave everyone enough to go off of. My question is how others would have played the hand different or if the majority beleives i played it right?

The turn push, overbet?? good or bad?

Like Acid said, if you're almost 100% (as you sound) on your read, then this play is OK.
However, if you've read any books on tells or have a small understanding of this, any action that a player makes (especially one who is not thinking completely straight, as villain appears here) that is noticeable and obvious is generally something that he wants you to see. I don't see the point here though, since all of your money is in and there's really no outplaying you at this point.

The 10-9 line seems reasonable, since the board is draw heavy and he is ahead of many hands on the flop. Since there is already near $500 in the pot, pushing is the only play unless you're sure he has you beat.

Edit: Reread and saw the sigh was before your all-in bet. Something like this is almost always a sign of strength. I don't push here, he could have filled up or flopped a straight. I check and see what he does.

Does anyone else not bet that flop from hero's position into over half the table? I realize that we may want to trim the field, but that flop could very well hit a ton of people. Also, maybe I don't understand the post, but why do we want FE if we think villian is drawing to 4 outs?

I have played a lot live and generally i would take that as an act, but i really believed him there.

scott i wanted him to call with the 10 9 but fold anything else, which he probably would. I just wanted the table to think i bluffed him off a better had if he did fold a QJ for example. also i wanted to see where i was and if anybody else had even called i would have been worried about a set. His multiple raises of bets with just top pair had me play with him. Anyone else make that same play i put on the brakes.

as he pondered a call
RESULT ALERT(in white) he shows me the 68 for the dummy straight and says i just know you have 10 7!?! shows how alert he's playing like i'd open raise in EP with 10 7.

I knew that was a possiblity but thought he would play it differently. Also maybe give me credit for a flopped set!?! (maybe not) Of course i gave him no credit for a set, wouldn't push into a full house and figured if he had what he had i still had 7 outs on the river for a better straight or a boat. He did call after a long wait, dealer burns and rivers the beautiful 7 to turn his straight to complete garbage, leaving a board of 10 7 9 7 7 only then i roll over my jacks and piss him completely off into taking his last $100 or so off the table and me to stack up my app. $1600 in just four hours of work.

how do you think about his flop play and conversely my complete play now?

as an end note, his sigh was real, because he DID not like the turn.

alos i hate giving up the lead in a hand.

I don't even like calling with jacks when you get popped to $200 on the flop. Even if Villain raises with TPNK in other pots, this board might be 10x more coordinated than the other boards where often TP is good. Personally, I fold jacks here because we're often drawing to runners to the boat, or hoping we catch an 8 and villain didn't complete his better draw.

The moral of the story: Don't get married to one pair on a coordinated board, because even LAG players can have good hands when they raise.

You donked it up fabulously. Just fabulously.

I hear ( or rather read) evertything you guys are saying. My thoughts which were at the speed of play were if i'm behind an eight would give me a double up so i'm risking $150 to win about $800 (of course not the odds i need to go for a gutshot) if i'm ahead he has at most 4 outs to beat me.

I figured he would make the play with a lot of hands (pair w/open-ended, 2 pair, TPTK,) and i thought he would welcome in more players with a straight and a set he might let one more card come off to make more money or in case someone had flopped straight.

When the turn hit i figure if i'm behind i'm drawing almost dead to a made fullhouse (which i didn't think him for) but have more outs against a flopped straight and maybe fold equity agaisnt the low straight. I was also now ahead of top two.

I called quickly for it to appear plausibly that i flopped top set.

Side note: i probably fold queens and maybe kings or aces here, beacause i don't have gutshot as a savior.

From his reaction to the turn, i was pretty sure he didn't fill up here, and my flop play allowed for the possibilty that i filled up. Him possibly having pocket queens was in the back of my mind as well.

I really wanted him to fold whatever he had and have him and the table wondering what i had to make such a play. I figured it would allow for me to take advantage of them later on. I think 7 outs and as much fold equity i had made my play passable!?

I didn't want anyone to think i was afraid to tangle with the big stack, esp. as he was doing alot of raising on the flop and bullying people out of pots.

I agree that my flop play was quesionable, i don't think i play perfect poker thats why i post here. Thank you for all comments.

Not neccessarily married, but i do agree i played an overpair overaggressively. But thats me, live and die by tight preflop hand selection then all out aggression postflop.

This is why you don't post hands that are almost entirely based on your read of the situation.

We (the forum posters) say that you made a bad play and that generally loud audible tells are acts. You say that we're wrong and there's really no arguing.

IMHO, you played the hand terribly. When you face any resistence on that flop, you're almost always in trouble. My feelings about your "complete play" do not change becuase the results do not validate or change how well or poorly you played the hand.

You invested 250 big bets on the turn alone when you were drawing to 8 outs (although it was actually 7 outs) and you can sometimes be drawing to only 2 outs. Just becuase he has made similar plays with top pair in the past does not mean that he's not allowed to have flopped 2 pair or a straight or a set here. Regardless of what he had, you should've folded on the flop becuase you showed a lot of strength betting into a large field and you were still met with a raise. If you're behind, it's unlikely that you'll improve. If you're ahead, you don't know which cards hurt your hand and which don't.

IMHO you're right on most of what you said. About the audible tell i think i did my best to assure you guys from the jump that it was an honest reaction and not an act and that fact CHANGED the way i played the hand. I was planning on checking every possible turn and only check raising if it was an eight, and only check calling if it was a jack. I put him on a wide range of hands and took a chance at getting his whole stack. If my play was THAT bad then fine, i don't agree. I do agree that it was maybe not the ultimate way to play or the way most people would play. I only wondered if ANYONE thought my play was acceptable.

I fold my hand on the flop to anyone else at that table, but i will always lead out on that flop with my hand, ALWAYS (well almost always)

I also included nearly every read that i based my actions off of.

Again thank you for playing.

Playing 1/2 NL, you should lead that flop everytime. The thing is, you should also be releasing it almost everytime that you face resistence. When you bet and are raised by a player (with more players left to act behind him) it shows a lot of strength because he worries not only about your hand but the others as well.

The other thing about your hand is that you can "improve it" and be drawing even slimmer becuase what look like your outs are in fact bad cards. If a J rolls, off, anyone with 8x makes a straight. If you make a straight, QJ (a very likely holding) makes a bigger straight. Even a board paring could be bad becuase a player could hold a hand like T8, 89 or 78 in which case they can make trips on you to go with their OESD.

You pushing the turn is a bad play because you will almost NEVER get called by a hand that you're beating or even drawing very live against. Therefore, there is no value in pushing there. If he has a better hand, you're going to get called. If he has a worse one, he's going to fold. That's why your play was bad. Not because of your reads or anything else, but you make a suicidal play on the turn that will only lose money.

Won't you always get resistence on this flop w/ over half the table seeing the flop?

It depends.

To answer your question with another question: Won't your hand almost always be in trouble with over half of the table seeing this flop?

Why would you push into him on the turn? What hand that beats you did you expect him to fold?

You're only 26, right?

Turning 25 at the end of the month.

He wasn't thinking of the hand like that. He wasn't thinking "what hands better than mine will I get to fold and what hands worse than mine will I get to call."

It was more like: "FISH HOOKS?!?!?!?! ALLLL INNNNNNNN. YEAAAAAAAAA DOGGIE!!"

Eh, maybe he thought T9 would still call. I fold JJ preflop, by the way, so I won't criticize anyone's play of Satan's pair.

I like the subtitle to this post..

I think the OP thinks he's a bad ***...

Screw playing the man, I play the cards 24/7...

Reads are overrated

I assign character types and try to make my play answer the question, "is what I bet/bring to showdown good enough to beat the kinds of plays made by this type?"

I do something similar.

I say, "Do any of the five cards on the table match either of the two cards in my hand?" If yes, I call.

A strategy aptly adopted from those scratch tickets.

We know. You've posted hands before.

No, not at all. There's still a chance that 1/2 the people are holding underpairs and 1/2 are holding big cards. If that's the case and we're looking for folds all around, then we should be leading this flop with AK. Or if we are intending to try to get all-in against one player with the overpair, we call a raise hoping for A10 or put a lone caller all in on a nothing turn assuming he's not a nit. I'm not trying to say leading is right or wrong, I just think bet/folding into 5 people on this board just doesn't seems right to me.