player only had like 13 hands, no read, nothing out of ordinary.

Ok to try this?
I don't think they take a free card often enough HU to be concerned

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

Preflop: MathGuy is UTG+1 with , .
1 fold, MathGuy raises, UTG+2 3-bets, 7 folds, MathGuy caps, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) , , (2 players)
MathGuy bets, UTG+2 raises, MathGuy calls.

Turn: (6.75 BB) (2 players)
MathGuy checks, UTG+2 bets, MathGuy raises, UTG+2 3-bets, MathGuy calls.

River: (12.75 BB) (2 players)
MathGuy checks, UTG+2 bets, MathGuy calls.

Final Pot: 14.75 BB


please opine.

if you don't know jack about him, I don't know why you didn't just play it straight forward and take notes afterwards. I'd rather 3bball/cap the flop than chicken out on the turn after being 3bet.

benefits: if u lead turn and he raises, granted u could have hit 99 or JJ but he can also do this w/QQ, KK and AA.

con of waiting for ur turn: You've missed out on some bb's if he has QQ,KK,AA. The line you took should be reserved for ppl u have reads on etc. imo

why make it tough on yourself? Just play your hands straight forward. There's plenty of value in doing so and sometimes even more so than waiting for the turn to cr. this is .50/1, not 500/1000.

you say a lot.
But what are you really saying?

I sense there are problems with this line but could you be more specific.

this seems a bad spot to get fancy to me. you maximized your loses at very little gain.

go on...

Why the c/c river? What are you afraid of? - It's unlikely he flushed. You've got the Ad which seems to preclude hands he would drive so hard preflop and flop.

Why did you not 3 bet the flop? You could have gotten a better idea of how much he liked his hand. If he caps, then slow down (although still tough, because on an undercard board he could be going hard on QQ or KK).

Are you playing like me - being afraid of the one hand that has you beat?

I think the fact that you backed off on the flop and turn may have made him think his kings are good. 50/50 that, or he has a set. It would give me some concern when he 3-bet your turn check raise.

Why are you trying to make this so hard.

3-bet the flop. Everytime. Seriously. It works wonders.

i make this play sometimes
but not here
this guy seems to have a hand he wants to put a lot of bets in with.
he cant unless you let him.

ummm.....

ok, folks, we are attempting to make the most against hands we beat and lose the least against hands we are behind.

River: I c/c because after the Turn I don't think he puts me on a FD or visa versa, so I figure to get a bet from almost all his hands that he calls a bet with, given the turn aggressiveness. If I lead, I may get rasied by a good portion of his winning hands. It is possible that the 3rd diamond protects us from getting raised by some better hands, and so we should bet in order to always get value. But that can be at least partially offset by the times he actually has a flush now.

Flop: Of course it's clear to 3-bet, call a cap, and ...??? c/c down? ok. Or Bet/Call turn, and Call down?
Surely, no one is c/r turn and calling down after a flop cap. And no one is folding.
So, say we call cap and c/c down.

When we don't cap the flop (and we have a Ad) we are getting c/r in 99% of the time on the turn
That equales out a missed 3-bet + cap.
And that assumes it's CAPPED.

Villain will also 3-bet a turn c/r lighter than he will raise a turn lead, if I 3-bet/call flop cap and lead the turn
It's a theory supported by observation, so far. Obv could be wrong.
But when you play a hand like a weirdo (hero), villians want to get value vs your semi bluffs, or worse.

There are lots of responses with lots of words; but I'd like numbers, ranges, something.

i cant give you numbers, only my intuition.


i see this sort of like wa/wb, which is the case of your hand and his. the catch is that everything is such where you need to put in a few bets because you have value against his range. so you want to be able to put in the right number of bets in such a way that he can't make you put in more than you want to. by playing the way you did you gave him final say about how much goes in.

honestly, tell me you didnt think oh **** to yourself when he made it three on the turn.

of course.
Same as I feel if I 3-bet flop, and he raises turn

The benefit here is that we often get an extra 1/2 BB, one less SB on flop, for 1 more BB on turn

Villains don't take enough free cards
Villains also seem to 3-bet lighter vs weird play, and sit in waiting vs straight forward play
I don't mean "most of the time" ,I mean it's an element.

I also don't see this as WA/WB type hand
We are ahead a lot more.
And, I don't want him to realize that

Meh, maybe this means nothing at .5/1 full ring, but by 3-betting this flop, you avoid being raised relentlessly on the flop by anything that mildly connects after you raise preflop. You also prevent free card raises, etc.

huh?
You mean raised on turn?

I like being raised on turn by worse hands.
If not 3-betting flop gives me two extra bets on turn, I'm all for it.
The times, I'm behind, I lose the same as Call flop cap, Bet/Call turn,
As I do with call flop raise, chk/raise - call turn.

I'm liking the play the moire you all tell me.

Help me learn! why I"m wrong?

No. I mean the flop.

if I 3 bet flop, I avoid getting raised on flop ?

In future hands. Metagame, my friend. Like I said though, I don't know if this happens at .5/1 full ring.

When I play vs moderately tough opponents, like 115% of the flops get raised after a preflop raise, if you show that you're not going to back down to a flop raise, and you 3-bet a lot more, on the flop, I find that you don't have to deal with that crap as much. My game generally consists of me raising pf, and then betting the flop. When things go smoothly, I'm not being raised on the flop very often, which means I don't have to make tough decisions with my medium to weak strength hands. Since I'd obv prefer to be in position for these pots, I can take the least expensive showdown line, and I can control how much I put in, with what strength of hand I have, etc. It might just be something that works well for my style though, I don't know. My flop AF tends to be quite high. (3.39/2.64/1.31, overall 2.56 AF in my current database, fwiw.)