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FCP Poker Forum > Poker Strategy Forum > Tournament Play
offmandh
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)

Hero (t1380)
MP2 (t1540)
MP3 (t1170)
CO (t1510)
Button (t1420)
SB (t1820)
BB (t1220)
UTG (t1840)
UTG+1 (t1580)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q icon_suit_spade.gif , A icon_suit_heart.gif .
2 folds, Hero raises to t100, 4 folds, SB calls t90, BB calls t80.

Flop: (t300) 4 icon_suit_diamond.gif , Q icon_suit_club.gif , 7 icon_suit_club.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets t120, SB calls t120, BB folds.

Turn: (t540) J icon_suit_spade.gif (2 players)
SB bets t200, Hero raises to t400, SB raises to t1600, ?

This might seem really obvious to you guys, but I just didn't know what to do. Also, was the min raise on the turn goofy??? I was trying to see where he was at. I though it would be really hard for him to bluff me if I did that. Also what about the river? Your thoughts?
Zach6668
QUOTE (offmandh @ Saturday, May 5th, 2007, 10:24 PM) *
This might seem really obvious to you guys, but I just didn't know what to do. Also, was the min raise on the turn goofy??? I was trying to see where he was at. I though it would be really hard for him to bluff me if I did that. Also what about the river? Your thoughts?

The min raise is ugly. But if you were doing it to "see where you were at", which is pretty bad in itself, but you found out pretty easily where you were....
YBravo
QUOTE (offmandh @ Saturday, May 5th, 2007, 10:24 PM) *
I though it would be really hard for him to bluff me if I did that.


Trust yourself.

I usually find that the check/call flop, lead on turn line indicates strength on somewhat uncoordinated boards. You're either way ahead or way behind. Just call on the turn. This saves you a lot of chips when you're behind, and gives him another chance to bluff on the river if you are ahead. If he makes a big bet on the river, I probably have to fold (but I won't like it very much).
DAces
He maybe caught the turn with QJ?
offmandh
the only hand i was really scared he could have had was AcJc. im still pretty sure he flopped a set though. you people that think i shouldnt have min raised the turn, should i have raised more or smooth called? i dont like smooth calling because he can make a big bet on the river and i have 0 idea where im at.
YBravo
QUOTE (offmandh @ Saturday, May 5th, 2007, 11:17 PM) *
i dont like smooth calling because he can make a big bet on the river and i have 0 idea where im at.


You have plenty of information on the river after a smooth call. Let's see:

You raised to 5xBB pre-flop, the SB called out of position and without great pot odds. (Indication of strength)

SB check-called a smallish continuation bet on the flop. (Indication of moderate strength)
By the way, I would have bet a little more here, like 150-210. But 120 isn't terrible.

SB leads into you on the turn with a small bet. (Indication of strength)

Hypothetical Action:

You call on the turn.

SB makes a big bet on the river. (sign of strength)

That's a lot of information, and given that you have no read on the player (this is an assumption based on the fact that the blinds are still 10/20), I'd probably have to fold if the river isn't an Ace or a Queen.

Actual Action:

You raise on the turn to 400. (sign of strength)

SB re-raises and puts you all in. (big sign of strength)
Note that this is very different from him simply shoving the turn. If he let out on the turn with a shove, I would advocate
calling, but you have shown him you have a good hand and he THEN put you all in. You probably have to fold.
jmbreslin
QUOTE (DAces @ Saturday, May 5th, 2007, 11:03 PM) *
He maybe caught the turn with QJ?


Possibly, but that kind of play could also indicate 77 (trapped with the flopped set) or JJ (turned on the jets when he hit his set). Either way, it's pretty clear Hero is behind here. I can't think of any hand he's beating that would have played this way. I'd probably go with a bigger flop bet and slow down on the turn.
copernicus
Once he misses a possible draw on the turn card and still bets the only hands you beat are pure bluffs or KQ, and Im not risking the tourney on it being one of those.
Willing 2 Die
result?

Probably QJ here, but id probably shove like a donk
melaskins
For me, AQ is such a trouble hand. It's nice and shiney but I have lost more with it than I have won. It is really hard to get a good read with it unless an A hits the board. Early in the tourney, I would think you would be better off not raising against the SB and this board. Statistically, you are probably better off to go all in here. Realistically, I think you are beat. Either that or you are up against someone who has zero understanding of the game. Even if the guy has got a pair of 2's, I wouldn't want my tournament life on the line here. Again though, I hate this hand.
gobears
I raise 3xBB here or even limp preflop - with the tourney just starting, last thing I want is to build a big pot with AQ which has terrible reverse implied odds.

Great flop, I bet 2/3 the pot there with two players in. Once the SB sticks around and bets especially on the turn card which missed both the flush and straight draws, then I'm just trying to get to a cheap showdown. No reason to go broke with TPTK this early.
offmandh
QUOTE (MAV_304 @ Monday, May 7th, 2007, 8:20 AM) *
result?

Probably QJ here, but id probably shove like a donk


Result is really late. My bad. Any ways, I just folded and he mucked. I was left with 750.
Kestral123
QUOTE (gobears @ Monday, May 7th, 2007, 12:47 PM) *
I raise 3xBB here or even limp preflop - with the tourney just starting, last thing I want is to build a big pot with AQ which has terrible reverse implied odds.

Great flop, I bet 2/3 the pot there with two players in. Once the SB sticks around and bets especially on the turn card which missed both the flush and straight draws, then I'm just trying to get to a cheap showdown. No reason to go broke with TPTK this early.

QFT. I agree with this line completely, except I probably bet only half the pot on the flop since we're heads-up in position and that's enough to price out the draws. I was also going to make the same point about the raise - I raise 3x here UNLESS for some reason 5x is your standard raise. Typically, when I see a raise of 5x-6x, my initial thought is "he doesn't want a flop" and I start narrowing the range to AQ, JJ, TT, 99, sometimes AK or QQ - i.e. hands where the flop might make things very difficult.

As played, you have to lay this down when he shoves you. He either has a set or QJ, but either way you are drawing very thin if not completely dead. Almost no chance he's doing this with a hand you're ahead of unless you have a read on him as being a complete maniac.
mtdesmoines
QUOTE (offmandh @ Saturday, May 5th, 2007, 6:24 PM) *
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)

Hero (t1380)
MP2 (t1540)
MP3 (t1170)
CO (t1510)
Button (t1420)
SB (t1820)
BB (t1220)
UTG (t1840)
UTG+1 (t1580)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q icon_suit_spade.gif , A icon_suit_heart.gif .
2 folds, Hero raises to t100, 4 folds, SB calls t90, BB calls t80.

Flop: (t300) 4 icon_suit_diamond.gif , Q icon_suit_club.gif , 7 icon_suit_club.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets t120, SB calls t120, BB folds.

Turn: (t540) J icon_suit_spade.gif (2 players)
SB bets t200, Hero raises to t400, SB raises to t1600, ?

This might seem really obvious to you guys, but I just didn't know what to do. Also, was the min raise on the turn goofy??? I was trying to see where he was at. I though it would be really hard for him to bluff me if I did that. Also what about the river? Your thoughts?


Your flop bet is really weak, in my opinion. You need to get about 350 in there to protect against QJ drawing to two pair, etc. Also, if he shoves, you can make a case for getting away (although I probably don't, if this is your standard $5 donkfest SNG.
Kestral123
QUOTE (mtdesmoines @ Tuesday, May 8th, 2007, 4:05 PM) *
Your flop bet is really weak, in my opinion. You need to get about 350 in there to protect against QJ drawing to two pair, etc. Also, if he shoves, you can make a case for getting away (although I probably don't, if this is your standard $5 donkfest SNG.

I agree the flop bet is weak, but betting 350 here is ridiculous. A half pot bet is more than enough to price out every draw he could have except for a pair + a flush draw, and if he has that he's not going anywhere no matter what you bet. If you were out of position and/or against multiple opponents then a pot-sized bet makes sense, but here, that's just spewing.
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