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Full Version: Qs Js In A Limped Pot
FCP Poker Forum > Poker Strategy Forum > No Limit Texas Hold'em Cash Games
Money022
No clear read on the villian. It's a limped pot though and I'm a little worried about a suited ace. Of course would a suited ace play it this fast?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG+1 ($26.85)
MP1 ($49.25)
Hero ($46.70)
MP3 ($32.10)
CO ($22.90)
Button ($49.35)
SB ($41.40)
BB ($32.45)
UTG ($47.55)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J, Q.
UTG calls $0.50, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.50, Hero calls $0.50, 3 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($2.50) 4, 9, 2 (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets $1.5, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds, MP1 raises to $5.5, Hero calls $4.

Turn: ($13.50) 6 (2 players)
MP1 bets $43.25 (All-In), Hero ???
rdtedm
Small chance of a King-High flush not wanting an ace to draw, but definitely a terrible play if he has an ace-high flush. I'd say 95% of the time it's a lower flush and he's drawing dead. I call and cry if he has you beat. Could also be the Ace of spades making a move.
Sefaje
i'd probably end up calling here about 500% of the time
Acid_Knight
This reeks of a smaller made flush.
Roberts2003
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Wednesday, May 2nd, 2007, 11:39 AM) *
This reeks of a smaller made flush.



agreed
mtdesmoines
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Wednesday, May 2nd, 2007, 11:39 AM) *
This reeks of a smaller made flush.


Odd. I thought made straight right off the bat.
linkwood
QUOTE (mtdesmoines @ Wednesday, May 2nd, 2007, 12:58 PM) *
Odd. I thought made straight right off the bat.


Or someone going nuts with two pair or a set. At these stakes I've seen people go nuts with a9 on boards like this. Easy call IMO.
Roberts2003
all off these hands are the same thing basically in this spot. so saying it looks like a smaller flush or 2 pair makes no difference.
Zach6668
QUOTE (Roberts2003 @ Wednesday, May 2nd, 2007, 4:50 PM) *
all off these hands are the same thing basically in this spot. so saying it looks like a smaller flush or 2 pair makes no difference.

The only difference is 2 pair, set, etc have outs, lol, which would probably turn this into a bad beat thread...

Otherwise, ya, no difference.
Money022
I can barely bring myself to even post this, but I folded. I'm playing weak tight with flushes right now because I've lost with a flush the last 7 times I've had them. 4 of those were flopped flushes. Had I actually taken the full amount of time I probably would have realized no nut flush is going to play it this way. But as you guys said, a small flush, set, or two pair all play it that way.

Part of what threw me off was that I bet and the called his reraise pretty quickly. I think that may have made it obvious that I had the flush. And then he pushes all his chips into the middle on the turn. At that moment I thought for sure he had the nuts and put me on a lower flush, figuring I would call.

After I folded I asked what he had and he said he flopped a set. Go figure, I suck.
danau
um ,instacall?

edit; read results. scared money?
Roberts2003
QUOTE (Money022 @ Wednesday, May 2nd, 2007, 1:59 PM) *
I can barely bring myself to even post this, but I folded. I'm playing weak tight with flushes right now because I've lost with a flush the last 7 times I've had them. 4 of those were flopped flushes. Had I actually taken the full amount of time I probably would have realized no nut flush is going to play it this way. But as you guys said, a small flush, set, or two pair all play it that way.

Part of what threw me off was that I bet and the called his reraise pretty quickly. I think that may have made it obvious that I had the flush. And then he pushes all his chips into the middle on the turn. At that moment I thought for sure he had the nuts and put me on a lower flush, figuring I would call.

After I folded I asked what he had and he said he flopped a set. Go figure, I suck.



when i hear something this, the first thing that enters my mind is that you must be playing with scared money. move down to like 5 10 cent 10$ buy in if you cant call off here with the 3rd nuts when he clearly does not have 2nd or 1st nuts.
danau
QUOTE (Roberts2003 @ Thursday, May 3rd, 2007, 8:37 AM) *
when i hear something this, the first thing that enters my mind is that you must be playing with scared money. move down to like 5 10 cent 10$ buy in if you cant call off here with the 3rd nuts when he clearly does not have 2nd or 1st nuts.

Wow this is so ironic
Roberts2003
QUOTE (danau @ Wednesday, May 2nd, 2007, 3:10 PM) *
Wow this is so ironic


hahaha

alright, that topic i started did look pretty absurd. i fold to your raise. but i ddnt fold there cuz it was scared money, that was difference.
Sefaje
QUOTE (Roberts2003 @ Wednesday, May 2nd, 2007, 6:25 PM) *
hahaha

alright, that topic i started did look pretty absurd. i fold to your raise. but i ddnt fold there cuz it was scared money, that was difference.


lololol danau.

and roberts, you're turning into a better poster everyday smile.gif
Money022
QUOTE (Roberts2003 @ Wednesday, May 2nd, 2007, 5:37 PM) *
when i hear something this, the first thing that enters my mind is that you must be playing with scared money. move down to like 5 10 cent 10$ buy in if you cant call off here with the 3rd nuts when he clearly does not have 2nd or 1st nuts.

I'm not nervous playing this limit, I was just tilting as I've lost so many flushes over the last few sessions that I felt like it was happening again. I reacted too quickly and didn't think through his possible hands and how he was playing it. Big mistake and I knew/know it.
bdc30
If you're going to fold this hand because you're scared of bigger flushes, stop playing JQ sooted. What the fuck better flop could you hope for? You can't flop a royal every time man.
Acid_Knight
QUOTE (bdc30 @ Thursday, May 3rd, 2007, 5:29 AM) *
You can't flop a royal every time man.

If he were a better player he could.
docnuclear
I agree with most and think that at this lever this is : a) a smaller flush one third of the time
cool.gif a set one third of the time
c) the A of spades going nuts some of the time
d) the nuts or second nuts rarely
So I call 100% of the time
rgold79
QUOTE (bdc30 @ Thursday, May 3rd, 2007, 8:29 AM) *
If you're going to fold this hand because you're scared of bigger flushes, stop playing JQ sooted. What the fuck better flop could you hope for? You can't flop a royal every time man.



Ha - it took 17 posts for someone to ask you why on earth you were limping with QJs only to fold when you flopped a flush. I was going to scream it otherwise.

Calmly, the odds of flopping a flush are very small, and for that reason most people rarely give their opponents credit for having flopped a flush, assuming instead that their opponent is just on a draw. If your opponent holds two cards of the same suit that you do, the odds of you both flopping a flush are even smaller. When you have the third nuts the odds his flopped flush is higher than yours is even smaller than that. Will it ever happen? Yes, occasionally, but not nearly often enough to ever make this hand a fold. Call, call, every time.
Snamuh
QUOTE (bdc30 @ Thursday, May 3rd, 2007, 8:29 AM) *
If you're going to fold this hand because you're scared of bigger flushes, stop playing JQ sooted. What the fuck better flop could you hope for? You can't flop a royal every time man.


Agreed. This is a gem flop for QJs. You have to go all the way with it.
Ricer98
QUOTE (Money022 @ Wednesday, May 2nd, 2007, 1:59 PM) *
I can barely bring myself to even post this, but I folded. I'm playing weak tight with flushes right now because I've lost with a flush the last 7 times I've had them. 4 of those were flopped flushes. Had I actually taken the full amount of time I probably would have realized no nut flush is going to play it this way. But as you guys said, a small flush, set, or two pair all play it that way.

Part of what threw me off was that I bet and the called his reraise pretty quickly. I think that may have made it obvious that I had the flush. And then he pushes all his chips into the middle on the turn. At that moment I thought for sure he had the nuts and put me on a lower flush, figuring I would call.

After I folded I asked what he had and he said he flopped a set. Go figure, I suck.


Assuming this guy is a decient player this very well could be why he pushed the turn. A quick call of a bet or raise usually means one thing, a good but not great hand. By calling so quick your telling him, my hand is good enough to call but not good enough to even think about reraising. In which case he can probably put you on something like two pair, smaller set, maybe top pair with the As redraw, ect. I'd say with the push he probably put you on the As draw. Many players are going to bet the nut flush draw then just call a raise. His turn bet obviously doesn't want a call so hes probably just overly scared of being out drawn on, assuming you would have 3 bet the flop with a made flush.
Money022
Thanks for all the replies everyone. bdc30 put it the best. Why he hell play suited cards if you're not going to roll with them after flopping a flush, let alone the third nut hand. What's even more stupid about that is I've said pretty much the same thing to players who have folded drawing hands when they hit their draws. You kind of merry yourself to them if you make your hand. If you don't, then stop playing them. Thanks again.
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