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Full Version: Do People Continuation Bet This Flop?
FCP Poker Forum > Poker Strategy Forum > No Limit Texas Hold'em Cash Games
Roberts2003
everyone is pretty loose

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($452.60)
MP ($639)
Hero ($762.80)
SB ($199.20)
BB ($337.40)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9, T.
UTG calls $4, MP calls $4, Hero raises to $16, 1 fold, BB calls $12, UTG calls $12, MP calls $12.

Flop: ($66) J, 8, 6 (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP checks, Hero............
trystero
If they're so loose then just call pf in position. You're bloating the pot with ten high.
ActionFalko
I made a very similar post in tournament play. Very interesting post I think. Harrington vs Lindgren (Continuation bets)

To your post: I think its better to take the free card, because you have so many opponents, someone could raise you. So just take the free card.
My humble opinion.
David_Nicoson
I can see the merit of both. I'd lean toward taking the free card.

As a generalization, don't reopen the betting when you have a lot of outs to the nuts but you aren't willing to stack off.

Do your opponents like to check-raise? Are they aggressive in general?

Trystero already made this point, but I think it would be helpful for you to try to verbalize what you're hoping to achieve with this raise preflop. It looks like you're just trying to play a big pot when you have position. It's guaranteed that the two limpers are calling this raise. There's nothing wrong with that idea, it's just not clear that you're representing a big hand. What size is your raise with QQ?
Acid_Knight
If your opponents are tricky and like to c/r with any hand that they hit the flop with, then you can either check behind or you can c-bet and then reraise their check-raise. You raised preflop and if you continue with so much aggression, it makes it very hard for people to stay around without 2 pair or a set. Also, you have 8 outs to make the nuts.

I kind of like playing fairly aggressively here becuase it'll make it easier to get paid on our other big hands.

If they're loose calling stations, then I still might make a bet just to get a bigger pot and hopefully they'll check to you on the turn and you can check behind if you miss.
Scott3705
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Wednesday, May 2nd, 2007, 6:29 AM) *
If your opponents are tricky and like to c/r with any hand that they hit the flop with, then you can either check behind or you can c-bet and then reraise their check-raise. You raised preflop and if you continue with so much aggression, it makes it very hard for people to stay around without 2 pair or a set. Also, you have 8 outs to make the nuts.

I kind of like playing fairly aggressively here becuase it'll make it easier to get paid on our other big hands.

If they're loose calling stations, then I still might make a bet just to get a bigger pot and hopefully they'll check to you on the turn and you can check behind if you miss.


This is right about what I was thinking as well, but believe the texture of the game could make one approach better than the other. If the game is "loose" just as a reaction to hero being very aggressive preflop, then there may be people willing to call of with Aj Kj here which will also intend to C/R here. If that's what's going on at this table, then I'd be more inclined to take the free card and hope if I catch good on the turn, that no one believes me. In most cases though, this would be a place that I think it's usually better to remain aggressive here. I think the important thing is that if you c/bet this flop, you have to continue with the aggression if some one C/r.
throwemaway
Man I might be nitty but I almost always check behind here with 3 players in front..This is very likely board for someone to set on and be looking to c/r..If I bet and get raised here, I have to do 1 of 2 things, neither of which I like..I'll have to play the draw extremely aggressive by 3 betting and thus, IMO, overplaying an OESD...Or I have to give up the lead and play it passively in a bloated pot, where I can basically only win by hitting on the turn..If we bet, get raised, and then call on the flop, chances are the villain is going to pot the turn and price us out..In that case, I think its better to check here because it gives us a better chance of seeing both the turn and river..

Also, I never raise this preflop
Royal_Tour
Obv, peoples 1st reactions are to C-bet this, Most of the time though, people want to check to see what the raiser does, Its not all the time that they will check cuz of weakness and fold to the button bet.

you have a nice draw for the nuts, its rainbow board, all your outs are good. I take a free card here.
Acid_Knight
QUOTE (throwemaway @ Wednesday, May 2nd, 2007, 8:48 AM) *
Man I might be nitty but I almost always check behind here with 3 players in front..This is very likely board for someone to set on and be looking to c/r..If I bet and get raised here, I have to do 1 of 2 things, neither of which I like..I'll have to play the draw extremely aggressive by 3 betting and thus, IMO, overplaying an OESD...Or I have to give up the lead and play it passively in a bloated pot, where I can basically only win by hitting on the turn..If we bet, get raised, and then call on the flop, chances are the villain is going to pot the turn and price us out..In that case, I think its better to check here because it gives us a better chance of seeing both the turn and river..

Also, I never raise this preflop

Couple of important notes to consider regarding your post:

1. This is SH NLHE, so the range of hands of his opponents is not the quality range that it would be at a full ring game
2. Raising hands like this in position is almost necessary at higher limits so that people can't effectively narrow down your range of hands too much. It allows you to make big hands that your opponents can't put you on, as well as represent other big hands becuase you raised preflop and took the lead.
3. The other points that you made regarding bloating the pot and maintaining the lead are accurate and are good points.

I also think this hand becomes much harder to play if we give up the lead in the hand, especially when we have position.

The fact is that there just aren't a ton of hands that really nail that flop. The only OESDs are the one that the Hero holds (Nut OESD), the 79 and the 57. There are no flush draws. Players with hands like JT, QJ and KJ are gonna have a hard time withstanding much heat with their hand. Making a c-bet here is a solid move. It's also fairly safe to assume that most players are raising 88 or JJ at a 5 handed table. Pocket 6s might have limped in there, but fearing sets with no action taking place is just looking for monsters under the bed.
NoBBiR
He's rarely wrong, so I go with Doyle Brunson's approach here. Don't worry about getting raised until it happens. C-bet because you showed strength preflop. Don't cross bridges until you get to them, especially when it comes to getting raised. If they are very loose aggressive players, then maybe checking behind is a good plan but I would never do it unless I'm pretty sure someone is ready and willing to raise me with a somewhat weak hand.
No_Neck
Do you C-bet most flops? if so I would C-bet this one too... this is about the best flop you can hope for with your hand, I don't see why you wouldn't C-bet here.
Roberts2003
A lot of these points are good, as either checking or betting is probably a good play here. I ended up checking as I felt none of these 3 players would lay down a Jack...and since im a huge luckbox, turn was a 7, and i won a huge pot off the UTG who had J8.

Also, I raise there EVERYTIME OTB with 910 suited. Sometimes ill even reraise someone preflop with hands like these. Its SH NL people. Not full ring.
Roberts2003
QUOTE (No_Neck @ Wednesday, May 2nd, 2007, 10:25 AM) *
Do you C-bet most flops? if so I would C-bet this one too... this is about the best flop you can hope for with your hand, I don't see why you wouldn't C-bet here.



I don't C-bet as much as I used to. I find that now adays, everyone knows what the C-bet is and many people will check raise with air, draws, or hands, putting yourself in a tough spot. An example is you raise with QQ black, and it comes 10 K 2, two clubs. He checks, you C-bet, and now he raises. Now what?? I think often the C-bet is overrated, I'll pull the play if I have complete air, but if i have a medium strength hand, Ill often check. Of course this is all assuming I am playing tough LAGs. If im playing weak fish, ill C-bet much more often. Really it depends on the opponent.
ActionFalko
QUOTE (Roberts2003 @ Wednesday, May 2nd, 2007, 10:54 AM) *
I don't C-bet as much as I used to. I find that now adays, everyone knows what the C-bet is and many people will check raise with air, draws, or hands, putting yourself in a tough spot. An example is you raise with QQ black, and it comes 10 K 2, two clubs. He checks, you C-bet, and now he raises. Now what?? I think often the C-bet is overrated, I'll pull the play if I have complete air, but if i have a medium strength hand, Ill often check. Of course this is all assuming I am playing tough LAGs. If im playing weak fish, ill C-bet much more often. Really it depends on the opponent.


Thouh Im new here, I must say I like your style,
Thats the same what Im thinking about NLHE. Its a bit what Daniel Negreanu is always saying, play small pots with small hands. So why create a huge pot by contibetting a pot with three opponents when you can easily see a free card. You have to pay NOTHING to get eventually the NUTS on the turn. And then it could be, that no one believes you, because you cheked the flop. Nobody puts you on T9s then.

I like your play.
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