So you're playing a single table SnG and you realize early on that you're playing against a table of limpers. The general philosophy seems to be to try to see the flop often in the hopes of a good hit. There are usually 4-6 players limping in to see the flop, and you notice that your standard 3BB raises aren't being respected. Your opponents seem just as likely to call for 60-90 chips as they are to limp for 20/30 chips, and players rarely if ever limp fold to PF raises.

This situation can be problematic because of the greater likelihood that one of your opponents will hit a lucky flop and will be able to trap you. My question is, what is the best way to adapt to this kind of play?

1) Tighten up your raising requirements - continue raising for value with strong pairs (QQ-AA) but limp with (or ahead of) the herd with hands that are more likely to become victims on the flop (eg. JJ, AJ-AK);
2) Make larger raises that are more likely to get respect - if 3BB isn't working, try 5BB;
3) A combination of 1 and 2.

Opinions?

I rarely open a pot with a standard 3xBB raise. Typically, I'll always open with 4xBB. If the pot has been limped, I'll up that to 4 + number of limpers; ie, one limper = 4+1xBB, two limpers = 4+2xBB, etc.

I play SnG's extremely tight early on and let the limpers/aggro players take themselves out. If you do get callers, I play it cautiously aggressive and only get involved with big pots if I have a big hand. Depending on the level you are playing, you may find yourself up against an opponent who calls with A rag and hits two pair to your AK. Alot of these guys can't fold an A which is good, but once in a while they hit their two pair and will simply call down. That can lead to a big lost hand for us if we bet out big each street. That maybe a little too passive for some, but that's how I tend to play SnG's. Don't get me wrong, If I hit the flop, I'll usually bet 2/3 to full pot, but if I get a caller I tend to play it a little slower from there.

Just last night, I had AKs and raised 4xBB from the button with no limpers. SB reraised 5x my raise. He had been playing just about every hand very aggressively with mediocre holdings. So I put him on a wide range and pushed. He called with A8os..... lol.

3.

If 3xbb isn't working, try 4 or 5xbb.

Also, early in a sng I like to limp sometimes with AK-AJ, and medium high pocket pairs for pot control, although I'll raise them sometimes.

We have a special forum for SNG and Tourney questions? Orly?

Play better.

How can you not just ABUSE a table of limpers?

EDIT: unless you're playing against some frat house that's colluding. ....

In 1 your range is too tight, especially when youre in position and know youve got several limpers. Youre getting great odds and should be playing their game. Raise big with your big hands as noted before..3 or 4x plus number of limpers. If you still get a lot of calls, youre getting huge odds as a big favorite..what more can you ask for?

Once youve established that style after a few show downs, you can also limp with a big hand now and then and if you hit a big flop (eg a big set) they will play along with TPGK or even SPGK. You only want to do that with a big stack though, because youre still going to play post flop when you dont hit, and dont want a LAG flush or straight to cripple you.

Thanks, guys, I hadn't heard of the 3/4BB+#limpers approach before. I'll give it a try.

mtdesmoines, your reply was completely pointless and unhelpful. I'd rather you just not post at all.

Raise more, put pressure on limpers to really commit alot of chips to see flops, chase draws, etc.

I adjust as follows:

1. Up my raising requirements behind the limpers, since I know I'm probably getting called most of the time by most of the limpers. This is something of a variation on the gap concept.

2. When I do raise, I make my standard raise plus 1x for each limper. My standard raise is 3x, so behind two limpers I would raise to 5x. If your standard raise is 4x (as noted by one reply), then I'd up it to 6x for two limpers. This also means you are building a bigger pot preflop, which is why (1) above is important.

3. In position, with limpers already in the pot, and as long as stacks are deep enough to warrant it, I will limp behind in late position and late middle with good implied odds hands, like small pairs and suited connectors. On the button I'll even add most unsuited connectors. The idea is to catch two pair or better and stack somebody, otherwise abandon ship on the flop.

4. From the SB, again assuming stack sizes allow it, I will complete with any two cards, for the same reasons stated in (3) above. I'm willing to toss in half a bet here in an effort to try and win a huge pot.

I have to emphasize that (3) and (4) only work if you are able to fold top pair hands in situations where it likely isn't good. If you can't, then stick to (1) and (2) until you learn how to use your fold button.

Actually, I am quite disciplined when it comes to being able to throw away hands postflop. What worries me more is leaking chips by limping in to too many pots, including completing the SB too often, and having to throw away postflop. I've noticed that this is actually one of my big weaknesses in the middle rounds when I am the bigstack: I loosen up my limping requirements and before I realize it I've bled a decent number of chips by limping and throwing away. Although you could argue that when I'm the bigstack I should become more aggressive and steal more on the flop rather than throwing away if I don't connect or connect well.

Pay attention to your position when trying to limp in with a hand. You might be bleeding away a lot of chips by trying to play these hands out of position. Being last to act after the flop is a huge advantage.

With a big stack you shouldnt be limping much. You'll wind up getting caught by a miracle flop and losing a big chunk of your lead. If youre going to play, use your stack to pressure the smaller stacks, but retreat if they play back. and as noted above, position is huge..play straightforward, dont cb into a check raise on the flop, but if theres weakness on the flop too, take the pot away

Great advice, thanks. I do have to work on my bigstack aggressiveness. I've noticed that I seem to be more comfortable working my way up from the shortstack than I am playing as the bigstack, probably because of the "nothing-to-lose" attitude that comes with the territory of being the shortstack. If I'm the bigstack, however, I almost become afraid of losing my lead and unconsciously become more passive.

Abusing the limpers should be done at the later stages. The first two levels are almost irrelevant. I look at them as a bonus free time where I can try to double up if possible. But when you think about it if you can make it to the 100-200 with antes level with a little over 2000, you should be fine.

This is when it is most important to apply bubble pressure and pick up all the dead money. When the blinds are 10-20 its almost meaningless. Tight early aggressive late.

Go to espn.com/poker click the poker edge and listen to the episode with Scott Fischman, he give some good advice. His book actually advocates open folding A Q in the early stages of a SNG, since you are more likely to lose a big pot than win one with that type of hand.

John Vorhaus gives exactly the same advice in the 2nd version of his holdem online book: staying away from potential trouble hands like AJ and AQ, and even JJ, in the very early stages of a SnG when the risk is actually greater than the reward.

If you've got a table full of limpers, let's say, blinds are pretty big where ave. stack is 15 blinds (200 blinds, ave. stack 3k), you're gonna have to shut down and play much tighter, and probably going to have to start pushing your hands once you get down to let's say 12bb instead of the usual 10 for pushbotting.
But, let's say it's very early in the sng, here's one of my tricks, I love it. Let's say by some miracle I actually won a pot early and I have a little bit more than average chips. Vs a ton of limpers and your on the button or blinds, etc., raise like 3x or 4x the bb, doesn't matter your cards, and have them all call and watch as the pot is now big enough for the retards to fight over. Watch them kill themselves. Congrats, you have one less moron to face. This only works very early where you can waste a couple of chips and sweeten their pot.

DUUUUUUUUUUDE it should be the complete around, lol.

Never heard the phrase "the complete around" but I'm assuming you mean I have it the wrong way around. I know, that's exactly why I identified it as a weakness of mine!

so many grammer police here lol. ok that's a pretty easy weakness to overcome though. gl to you