First hand I have played today...
Paradise Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t5 (8 handed) converter
MP1 (t1010.00)
MP2 (t975.00)
CO (t3010.00)
Button (t1195.00)
SB (t970.00)
Hero (t1000.00)
UTG (t840.00)
UTG+1 (t1000.00)
Preflop: Hero is BB with [Th], [Jh]. SB posts a blind of t5.
3 folds, SB (poster) completes, Hero checks.
Flop: (t40) [6h], [2h], [Qh] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t40, MP2 calls t40, CO calls t40, SB folds.
Turn: (t160) [4s] (3 players)
Hero bets t160, MP2 calls t160, CO calls t160.
River: (t640) [4d] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets t765, CO folds, Hero is undecided as to what to do... :think:
What are your thoughts?
Full Version: i gotsta know what others do here
call
Yeah, call. You don't have the nuts.
QUOTE (Absolute)
call
that's it...call...just like that...is it really that easy??? :wall:
yes
Id like to hear you explain that horrible river check though
If MP2 is any kind of player I call. If he knows how to play, I don't think he has you beat unless he slow played the nut flush.(Probably not likely given betting allin to a paired board, as the only call he'll get is a boat that beats him)
I don't think a good player slow plays TP into a flush flop. Probably would raise for information somewhere. Then he continues to slow play with two pair after turn. Not likely, IMO.
I'd put him on trip 4's. His calls bought him enough rope to hang himself.
Then again, I'm a newb. What do I know?
I don't think a good player slow plays TP into a flush flop. Probably would raise for information somewhere. Then he continues to slow play with two pair after turn. Not likely, IMO.
I'd put him on trip 4's. His calls bought him enough rope to hang himself.
Then again, I'm a newb. What do I know?
QUOTE (Custom36)
Yeah, call. You don't have the nuts.
That statement makes no sense. If I had the nuts, I would call automatically. If I don't, how does that make it an automatic call?
QUOTE (Rocketwadster)
First hand I have played today...
Paradise Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t5 (8 handed) converter
MP1 (t1010.00)
MP2 (t975.00)
CO (t3010.00)
Button (t1195.00)
SB (t970.00)
Hero (t1000.00)
UTG (t840.00)
UTG+1 (t1000.00)
Preflop: Hero is BB with [Th], [Jh]. SB posts a blind of t5.
3 folds, SB (poster) completes, Hero checks.
Flop: (t40) [6h], [2h], [Qh] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t40, MP2 calls t40, CO calls t40, SB folds.
Turn: (t160) [4s] (3 players)
Hero bets t160, MP2 calls t160, CO calls t160.
River: (t640) [4d] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets t765, CO folds, Hero is undecided as to what to do... :think:
What are your thoughts?
Paradise Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t5 (8 handed) converter
MP1 (t1010.00)
MP2 (t975.00)
CO (t3010.00)
Button (t1195.00)
SB (t970.00)
Hero (t1000.00)
UTG (t840.00)
UTG+1 (t1000.00)
Preflop: Hero is BB with [Th], [Jh]. SB posts a blind of t5.
3 folds, SB (poster) completes, Hero checks.
Flop: (t40) [6h], [2h], [Qh] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t40, MP2 calls t40, CO calls t40, SB folds.
Turn: (t160) [4s] (3 players)
Hero bets t160, MP2 calls t160, CO calls t160.
River: (t640) [4d] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets t765, CO folds, Hero is undecided as to what to do... :think:
What are your thoughts?
Bet double the pot (320) on the turn to punish anyone holding the bare Ace of Diamonds or King of Diamonds. And push on the river. What could he have possibly called the flop and turn with that suddenly beats you on the river, other than a bigger flush?
QUOTE (Rocketwadster)
MP1 (t1010.00)
MP2 (t975.00)
CO (t3010.00)
Button (t1195.00)
SB (t970.00)
Hero (t1000.00)
UTG (t840.00)
UTG+1 (t1000.00)
Preflop: Hero is BB with [Th], [Jh]. SB posts a blind of t5.
3 folds, SB (poster) completes, Hero checks.
Flop: (t40) [6h], [2h], [Qh] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t40, MP2 calls t40, CO calls t40, SB folds.
Turn: (t160) [4s] (3 players)
Hero bets t160, MP2 calls t160, CO calls t160.
River: (t640) [4d] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets t765, CO folds, Hero is undecided as to what to do... :think:
What are your thoughts?
MP2 (t975.00)
CO (t3010.00)
Button (t1195.00)
SB (t970.00)
Hero (t1000.00)
UTG (t840.00)
UTG+1 (t1000.00)
Preflop: Hero is BB with [Th], [Jh]. SB posts a blind of t5.
3 folds, SB (poster) completes, Hero checks.
Flop: (t40) [6h], [2h], [Qh] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t40, MP2 calls t40, CO calls t40, SB folds.
Turn: (t160) [4s] (3 players)
Hero bets t160, MP2 calls t160, CO calls t160.
River: (t640) [4d] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets t765, CO folds, Hero is undecided as to what to do... :think:
What are your thoughts?
Just my 2 cents:
Pre-flop: Bump it up your normal raise amount (I'd probably raise it up to T50,) Hopefully getting 1 or 2 of the 3 others to fold, or re-evaluate a slow-play.
Post-flop: Bet the pot. (After a limp-in, I might actually try to check-raise.)
Turn: Bet the pot.
River: Bet the pot. (But without the pre-flop raise, you have to fear the Arlo.
)
Specifically for your last decision, I would call. The only thing I don't like about this hand is that you've not really extracted much information from the other players.
I'm leaning towards call. Would the nut flush play so passively on the flop and the turn, and then go crazy like that on the river? Probably not. A flopped set of 6's or ducks would probably send a feeler raise out on the flop, just to make sure you had actually flopped the flush, and weren't pseudobluffing a draw. He's probably drawing to the Ah (with an unsuited crap kicker...maybe the 6?), and decided to make a stab at the bluff when the pair hit.
Unless this is the worst played pocket queens in history, you're probably good here.
Of course, I suck at MTT NLHE.
Unless this is the worst played pocket queens in history, you're probably good here.
Of course, I suck at MTT NLHE.
QUOTE (Rocketwadster)
QUOTE (Custom36)
Yeah, call. You don't have the nuts.
That statement makes no sense. If I had the nuts, I would call automatically. If I don't, how does that make it an automatic call?
Call, as opposed to fold, as opposed to raise. If you had the nuts, Rocket, you'd raise his ass, not call.
Generally if oyu have the best hand you want the most money.
"I VALUE CALL MY NUTS!" As Weber says.
QUOTE (NormanHaupt)
QUOTE (Rocketwadster)
QUOTE (Custom36)
Yeah, call. You don't have the nuts.
That statement makes no sense. If I had the nuts, I would call automatically. If I don't, how does that make it an automatic call?
Call, as opposed to fold, as opposed to raise. If you had the nuts, Rocket, you'd raise his ass, not call.
Generally if oyu have the best hand you want the most money.
"I VALUE CALL MY NUTS!" As Weber says.
Villain just pushed. Raising isn't an option.
QUOTE (cdddc75)
QUOTE (NormanHaupt)
QUOTE (Rocketwadster)
QUOTE (Custom36)
Yeah, call. You don't have the nuts.
That statement makes no sense. If I had the nuts, I would call automatically. If I don't, how does that make it an automatic call?
Call, as opposed to fold, as opposed to raise. If you had the nuts, Rocket, you'd raise his ass, not call.
Generally if oyu have the best hand you want the most money.
"I VALUE CALL MY NUTS!" As Weber says.
Villain just pushed. Raising isn't an option.
whoops, I didn't do the math. gg. Well, anyway, you'd still call because he could've been firing off randomly with the A
trying to make a play, or could have trips, two pair, ect. Figuring you all were calling along on him trying to catch that four-flush.
Gotsa call.
Here are my thoughts on the hand, as it played out:
Pre-flop - I LOVE these cards to limp in with, but in the big blind with a couple of other limpers already I am not convinced that a raise is the best play at the level I play at (this is a $10+1 tourney). I'll see the flop for free and see what comes up.
After the flop - Great flop for me, as I have flopped a pretty good flush. I'll bet the pot to hopefully scare away the trash.
After the turn - Okay, two people called my pot-sized bet, so they must have something, but what? I'll stay agressive and make another pot-sized bet and hopefully take it down right here.
After the river - Okay, two people have now called both of my pot-sized bets, so they had to have something this whole time. Could they have slow played with a higher flush? River card paired the board, so did they have a set after the flop? I have yet to see someone slow-play a higher flush than the one I had in a $10 SNG on this site, so they either had a small flush (so I win), or they have now made a full house (so I lose), or they were chasing and missed (so I win). I figure I'll do a check-raise here on the river to any weak bet. Wait, what's this guy doing? He went all-in? Why the heck would he go all-in? If he has the full, wouldn't he bet smaller hoping to extract more money? He can't have the full, can he? No way, Jose! He is trying to buy it after missing his hand, or thinks his small flush is best since I checked. What is the CO going to do though? Oh, he folded. Okay then. So now I can call this and have a huge chip lead if I win, or be basically out on my first hand of the day if I lose. I can only lose to a slow-played flush (which I have already said I do not believe it is possible from this bunch) or a full boat (which I have already said would make no sense based on his all-in bet).
Therefore, I have won this hand, so I call.
Hero: Call (765)
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: 2,170 | Board: [ 6h 2h Qh 4s 4d ]
MP2 bet 975, collected 2,170, net +1,195 (showed hand) [ 2c 2s ] (a full house, twos full of fours)
Hero lost 975 (showed hand) [ Th Jh ] (a flush, queen high)
Dammit. :evil:
Pre-flop - I LOVE these cards to limp in with, but in the big blind with a couple of other limpers already I am not convinced that a raise is the best play at the level I play at (this is a $10+1 tourney). I'll see the flop for free and see what comes up.
After the flop - Great flop for me, as I have flopped a pretty good flush. I'll bet the pot to hopefully scare away the trash.
After the turn - Okay, two people called my pot-sized bet, so they must have something, but what? I'll stay agressive and make another pot-sized bet and hopefully take it down right here.
After the river - Okay, two people have now called both of my pot-sized bets, so they had to have something this whole time. Could they have slow played with a higher flush? River card paired the board, so did they have a set after the flop? I have yet to see someone slow-play a higher flush than the one I had in a $10 SNG on this site, so they either had a small flush (so I win), or they have now made a full house (so I lose), or they were chasing and missed (so I win). I figure I'll do a check-raise here on the river to any weak bet. Wait, what's this guy doing? He went all-in? Why the heck would he go all-in? If he has the full, wouldn't he bet smaller hoping to extract more money? He can't have the full, can he? No way, Jose! He is trying to buy it after missing his hand, or thinks his small flush is best since I checked. What is the CO going to do though? Oh, he folded. Okay then. So now I can call this and have a huge chip lead if I win, or be basically out on my first hand of the day if I lose. I can only lose to a slow-played flush (which I have already said I do not believe it is possible from this bunch) or a full boat (which I have already said would make no sense based on his all-in bet).
Therefore, I have won this hand, so I call.
Hero: Call (765)
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: 2,170 | Board: [ 6h 2h Qh 4s 4d ]
MP2 bet 975, collected 2,170, net +1,195 (showed hand) [ 2c 2s ] (a full house, twos full of fours)
Hero lost 975 (showed hand) [ Th Jh ] (a flush, queen high)
Dammit. :evil:
I would have lost my entry too. :oops:
I still think you made the right play against his runner runner boat. A smaller bet post flop may have induced a re-raise by the trips, but I don't think you could have played it any better. Thought process was good.
Only real mistake is getting involved in a big hand early in a tourney. Books say not to, but I probably would have done the same.
I still think you made the right play against his runner runner boat. A smaller bet post flop may have induced a re-raise by the trips, but I don't think you could have played it any better. Thought process was good.
Only real mistake is getting involved in a big hand early in a tourney. Books say not to, but I probably would have done the same.
QUOTE (Silly String)
I would have lost my entry too. :oops:
I still think you made the right play against his runner runner boat. A smaller bet post flop may have induced a re-raise by the trips, but I don't think you could have played it any better. Thought process was good.
Only real mistake is getting involved in a big hand early in a tourney. Books say not to, but I probably would have done the same.
I still think you made the right play against his runner runner boat. A smaller bet post flop may have induced a re-raise by the trips, but I don't think you could have played it any better. Thought process was good.
Only real mistake is getting involved in a big hand early in a tourney. Books say not to, but I probably would have done the same.
The only thing that I would have done differently would have been to lead out after the river card, but the end result is the same.
I didn't really get involved early though, as I was the BB, so I saw the flop for free. What was I suppoed to do, fold my flush? I'm a victim of circumstance. :wink:
QUOTE (Rocketwadster)
Here are my thoughts on the hand, as it played out:
Pre-flop - I LOVE these cards to limp in with, but in the big blind with a couple of other limpers already I am not convinced that a raise is the best play at the level I play at (this is a $10+1 tourney). I'll see the flop for free and see what comes up.
This is fine.
After the flop - Great flop for me, as I have flopped a pretty good flush. I'll bet the pot to hopefully scare away the trash.
This is also fine.
After the turn - Okay, two people called my pot-sized bet, so they must have something, but what? I'll stay agressive and make another pot-sized bet and hopefully take it down right here.
Here is where I think you misplayed. If you want to take it down right there, a pot sized bet isn't going to do it against good hands. Bet at least twice the pot (pushing is probably best). If you are the guy with the set of deuces, are you calling all in against a flush flop?
After the river - Okay, two people have now called both of my pot-sized bets, so they had to have something this whole time. Could they have slow played with a higher flush? River card paired the board, so did they have a set after the flop? I have yet to see someone slow-play a higher flush than the one I had in a $10 SNG on this site, so they either had a small flush (so I win), or they have now made a full house (so I lose), or they were chasing and missed (so I win). I figure I'll do a check-raise here on the river to any weak bet. Wait, what's this guy doing? He went all-in? Why the heck would he go all-in? If he has the full, wouldn't he bet smaller hoping to extract more money? He can't have the full, can he? No way, Jose! He is trying to buy it after missing his hand, or thinks his small flush is best since I checked. What is the CO going to do though? Oh, he folded. Okay then. So now I can call this and have a huge chip lead if I win, or be basically out on my first hand of the day if I lose. I can only lose to a slow-played flush (which I have already said I do not believe it is possible from this bunch) or a full boat (which I have already said would make no sense based on his all-in bet).
Therefore, I have won this hand, so I call.
I think you overthought this push. Only a madman would push here with less than a low flush. If you push first here, you might be able to convince your opponent to fold an underfull. Not likely, but possible. Your opponent rightfully believed that you were committed to the hand with a flush. He pushed because he knew you wouldn't be able to get away from your flush. You were probably dead at this point, but failing to push first gave your hand away to the Villain.
Hero: Call (765)
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: 2,170 | Board: [ 6h 2h Qh 4s 4d ]
MP2 bet 975, collected 2,170, net +1,195 (showed hand) [ 2c 2s ] (a full house, twos full of fours)
Hero lost 975 (showed hand) [ Th Jh ] (a flush, queen high)
Dammit. :evil:
Pre-flop - I LOVE these cards to limp in with, but in the big blind with a couple of other limpers already I am not convinced that a raise is the best play at the level I play at (this is a $10+1 tourney). I'll see the flop for free and see what comes up.
This is fine.
After the flop - Great flop for me, as I have flopped a pretty good flush. I'll bet the pot to hopefully scare away the trash.
This is also fine.
After the turn - Okay, two people called my pot-sized bet, so they must have something, but what? I'll stay agressive and make another pot-sized bet and hopefully take it down right here.
Here is where I think you misplayed. If you want to take it down right there, a pot sized bet isn't going to do it against good hands. Bet at least twice the pot (pushing is probably best). If you are the guy with the set of deuces, are you calling all in against a flush flop?
After the river - Okay, two people have now called both of my pot-sized bets, so they had to have something this whole time. Could they have slow played with a higher flush? River card paired the board, so did they have a set after the flop? I have yet to see someone slow-play a higher flush than the one I had in a $10 SNG on this site, so they either had a small flush (so I win), or they have now made a full house (so I lose), or they were chasing and missed (so I win). I figure I'll do a check-raise here on the river to any weak bet. Wait, what's this guy doing? He went all-in? Why the heck would he go all-in? If he has the full, wouldn't he bet smaller hoping to extract more money? He can't have the full, can he? No way, Jose! He is trying to buy it after missing his hand, or thinks his small flush is best since I checked. What is the CO going to do though? Oh, he folded. Okay then. So now I can call this and have a huge chip lead if I win, or be basically out on my first hand of the day if I lose. I can only lose to a slow-played flush (which I have already said I do not believe it is possible from this bunch) or a full boat (which I have already said would make no sense based on his all-in bet).
Therefore, I have won this hand, so I call.
I think you overthought this push. Only a madman would push here with less than a low flush. If you push first here, you might be able to convince your opponent to fold an underfull. Not likely, but possible. Your opponent rightfully believed that you were committed to the hand with a flush. He pushed because he knew you wouldn't be able to get away from your flush. You were probably dead at this point, but failing to push first gave your hand away to the Villain.
Hero: Call (765)
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: 2,170 | Board: [ 6h 2h Qh 4s 4d ]
MP2 bet 975, collected 2,170, net +1,195 (showed hand) [ 2c 2s ] (a full house, twos full of fours)
Hero lost 975 (showed hand) [ Th Jh ] (a flush, queen high)
Dammit. :evil:
This is the easiest call I have ever seen...and the worst check.
[quote]After the turn - Okay, two people called my pot-sized bet, so they must have something, but what? I'll stay agressive and make another pot-sized bet and hopefully take it down right here.
Here is where I think you misplayed. If you want to take it down right there, a pot sized bet isn't going to do it against good hands. Bet at least twice the pot (pushing is probably best). If you are the guy with the set of deuces, are you calling all in against a flush flop?
My reasoning here is that I firmly believe I could get away from this hand had someone played back at me. By making any higher of a bet at this point, I am basically commiting myself to the pot anyhow, so I may as well go all-in right here (like you said). But, this is the first hand I've played in the tourney, only like the 4th hand in, so I don't WANT to put myself into an all-in situation if I can help it. As I said, my thoughts were that I would take the pot down right here, and if not I was probably beat.
We never did get to see the CO's cards, so he may have had me beat also (doubt it though, I have him pegged for the nut flush draw, maybe Ace xsomething). Also, based on how the pocket dueces played the hand, I doubt he would have folded to an all-in raise by me on the turn anyhow. Maybe I have that guy pegged totally wrong, but to call with the lowest set with two other people when a flush flops, well to me that takes a lot of testicular fortitude or is just dumb. Had I been the deuces, I would have re-raised after the flop, a fairly substantial amount too. But that is just me, looking at it with hindsight.
Then, depending on the bet on the river card (which was a scare card for my flush), I would either go over the top, or fold. The all-in bet was a very bad bet (in my mind at least), telling me that I have won the hand when I hit the call button, unless the guy knew that his all-in bet would look like a steal attempt (not likely from this croud) which would entice any flushes to call. :?
Here is where I think you misplayed. If you want to take it down right there, a pot sized bet isn't going to do it against good hands. Bet at least twice the pot (pushing is probably best). If you are the guy with the set of deuces, are you calling all in against a flush flop?
My reasoning here is that I firmly believe I could get away from this hand had someone played back at me. By making any higher of a bet at this point, I am basically commiting myself to the pot anyhow, so I may as well go all-in right here (like you said). But, this is the first hand I've played in the tourney, only like the 4th hand in, so I don't WANT to put myself into an all-in situation if I can help it. As I said, my thoughts were that I would take the pot down right here, and if not I was probably beat.
We never did get to see the CO's cards, so he may have had me beat also (doubt it though, I have him pegged for the nut flush draw, maybe Ace
xsomething). Also, based on how the pocket dueces played the hand, I doubt he would have folded to an all-in raise by me on the turn anyhow. Maybe I have that guy pegged totally wrong, but to call with the lowest set with two other people when a flush flops, well to me that takes a lot of testicular fortitude or is just dumb. Had I been the deuces, I would have re-raised after the flop, a fairly substantial amount too. But that is just me, looking at it with hindsight.
Then, depending on the bet on the river card (which was a scare card for my flush), I would either go over the top, or fold. The all-in bet was a very bad bet (in my mind at least), telling me that I have won the hand when I hit the call button, unless the guy knew that his all-in bet would look like a steal attempt (not likely from this croud) which would entice any flushes to call. :?
QUOTE (Rocketwadster)
Then, depending on the bet on the river card (which was a scare card for my flush), I would either go over the top, or fold. The all-in bet was a very bad bet (in my mind at least), telling me that I have won the hand when I hit the call button, unless the guy knew that his all-in bet would look like a steal attempt (not likely from this croud) which would entice any flushes to call. :?
Exactly. At this level, the all in was a "Gee, I have a full house, I should go all in" move.
He was getting 3:1 to call on the previous streets. While that is slightly -EV, I can understand it. After all, if the full house comes...he can go big at the end. Implied odds were in his favor.
Easiest fold ever.
Only a complete fool would call here. You have plenty of chips left.
Only a complete fool would call here. You have plenty of chips left.
Bet the river, but fold to a raise because you have the 3rd best flush on a paired board...you lost control of the hand
QUOTE (Vade)
Bet the river, but fold to a raise because you have the 3rd best flush on a paired board...you lost control of the hand
How much would you bet without pushing?
Leading the way he has all through the hand, he's got to bet at least t250. Folding to an all in raise is even more difficult then.
Three initial callers with a pot sized bet is suspicious. Two callers for the pot sized bet on the turn too. What do you expect they both have?
The river could only conceivably improve someone with a set. He overbet the pot on the river after your check, yeah, but there was still another caller to act. It's a lot to be betting on a complete bluff when there's heavy 3 way action and the third player has yet to act. The only thing that he could have that would have you beat would be a lower flush, and even then, you'd have to assume him to be pretty weak to play it like he did with those cards.
The river could only conceivably improve someone with a set. He overbet the pot on the river after your check, yeah, but there was still another caller to act. It's a lot to be betting on a complete bluff when there's heavy 3 way action and the third player has yet to act. The only thing that he could have that would have you beat would be a lower flush, and even then, you'd have to assume him to be pretty weak to play it like he did with those cards.
QUOTE (Smasharoo)
Easiest fold ever.
Only a complete fool would call here. You have plenty of chips left.
Only a complete fool would call here. You have plenty of chips left.
There are plenty of easier folds. This isn't even a fold.
Stop using overly conclusive adjectives.
QUOTE (Absolute)
QUOTE (Smasharoo)
Easiest fold ever.
Only a complete fool would call here. You have plenty of chips left.
Only a complete fool would call here. You have plenty of chips left.
There are plenty of easier folds. This isn't even a fold.
Stop using overly conclusive adjectives.
Now I am very confused, becuase I usually agree with Smash on what to do here. When he went all-in, it screamed at me that he missed, so I had to call. The majority of the people who replied said call. I still think it's a call based on how it all went down.
Everyone seems to think this is a black and white decision here, either one way or the other.
Not to pull a politician's position on this, but I don't think this is not nearly as blatantly easy as everyone else seems to think, for either a call OR a fold.
I'm worried because you at no point had the nuts (or a draw to the nuts), and a definite scare card fell off on the river. If I was in late position with Ahxh I'd feel pretty good with you coming right out of the gate and potting it at me.
If someone flopped a set, clearly he should have raised you to find out where he was at, but online tournaments have featured dumber plays by dumber players.
My point is you have a very beatable hand. However, the betting would seem to indicate that you were ahead the whole way. I'm worried, though, because you're posting this, you ran into either a nut flush, set, or two pair that filled up on the end. All of these are perfectly plausible holdings for either of your opponents.
I still think you have to call. If you were firing away into the nuts... then that sucks but so be it.
Reminds me of one of Doyle's sayings about no limit hold'em: "Don't lose all your chips in an unraised pot." This is good advice, because you just don't have any information on this hand.
So, for my ultimate politician's answer, I think you have to call the river. However, echoing smash's sentiments for folding, I think you shouldn't have ended up so overplayed (and committed) with a non-nut holding... in an unraised pot... early in a tournament.
How's that for a flip flop?
Just my $.02 ...
Not to pull a politician's position on this, but I don't think this is not nearly as blatantly easy as everyone else seems to think, for either a call OR a fold.
I'm worried because you at no point had the nuts (or a draw to the nuts), and a definite scare card fell off on the river. If I was in late position with Ahxh I'd feel pretty good with you coming right out of the gate and potting it at me.
If someone flopped a set, clearly he should have raised you to find out where he was at, but online tournaments have featured dumber plays by dumber players.
My point is you have a very beatable hand. However, the betting would seem to indicate that you were ahead the whole way. I'm worried, though, because you're posting this, you ran into either a nut flush, set, or two pair that filled up on the end. All of these are perfectly plausible holdings for either of your opponents.
I still think you have to call. If you were firing away into the nuts... then that sucks but so be it.
Reminds me of one of Doyle's sayings about no limit hold'em: "Don't lose all your chips in an unraised pot." This is good advice, because you just don't have any information on this hand.
So, for my ultimate politician's answer, I think you have to call the river. However, echoing smash's sentiments for folding, I think you shouldn't have ended up so overplayed (and committed) with a non-nut holding... in an unraised pot... early in a tournament.
How's that for a flip flop?
Just my $.02 ...
QUOTE (TJ_Eckleburg)
Everyone seems to think this is a black and white decision here, either one way or the other.
Not to pull a politician's position on this, but I don't think this is not nearly as blatantly easy as everyone else seems to think, for either a call OR a fold.
I'm worried because you at no point had the nuts (or a draw to the nuts), and a definite scare card fell off on the river. If I was in late position with Ahxh I'd feel pretty good with you coming right out of the gate and potting it at me.
If someone flopped a set, clearly he should have raised you to find out where he was at, but online tournaments have featured dumber plays by dumber players.
My point is you have a very beatable hand. However, the betting would seem to indicate that you were ahead the whole way. I'm worried, though, because you're posting this, you ran into either a nut flush, set, or two pair that filled up on the end. All of these are perfectly plausible holdings for either of your opponents.
I still think you have to call. If you were firing away into the nuts... then that sucks but so be it.
Reminds me of one of Doyle's sayings about no limit hold'em: "Don't lose all your chips in an unraised pot." This is good advice, because you just don't have any information on this hand.
So, for my ultimate politician's answer, I think you have to call the river. However, echoing smash's sentiments for folding, I think you shouldn't have ended up so overplayed (and committed) with a non-nut holding... in an unraised pot... early in a tournament.
How's that for a flip flop?
Just my $.02 ...
Not to pull a politician's position on this, but I don't think this is not nearly as blatantly easy as everyone else seems to think, for either a call OR a fold.
I'm worried because you at no point had the nuts (or a draw to the nuts), and a definite scare card fell off on the river. If I was in late position with Ahxh I'd feel pretty good with you coming right out of the gate and potting it at me.
If someone flopped a set, clearly he should have raised you to find out where he was at, but online tournaments have featured dumber plays by dumber players.
My point is you have a very beatable hand. However, the betting would seem to indicate that you were ahead the whole way. I'm worried, though, because you're posting this, you ran into either a nut flush, set, or two pair that filled up on the end. All of these are perfectly plausible holdings for either of your opponents.
I still think you have to call. If you were firing away into the nuts... then that sucks but so be it.
Reminds me of one of Doyle's sayings about no limit hold'em: "Don't lose all your chips in an unraised pot." This is good advice, because you just don't have any information on this hand.
So, for my ultimate politician's answer, I think you have to call the river. However, echoing smash's sentiments for folding, I think you shouldn't have ended up so overplayed (and committed) with a non-nut holding... in an unraised pot... early in a tournament.
How's that for a flip flop?
Just my $.02 ...
well TJ, thanks for telling me that I shoudl have called, but shoudn't have...lol...you nailed it right on the head...
I think my biggest mistake was playing this SNG in the first place... :wink:
That's why everyone on the forum loves me (:
My point is you SHOULD call for value and pot size... but try to avoid these situations by realizing what happens when you flop good but potentially second place hands horribly out of position in an unraised pot where you have no information about anything.
My point is you SHOULD call for value and pot size... but try to avoid these situations by realizing what happens when you flop good but potentially second place hands horribly out of position in an unraised pot where you have no information about anything.
He had a full house, it happens.
You still need to bet this river.
You still need to bet this river.
In a limit cash game, without question bet the river. But this is early in a no-limit tournament. There is no bet worth making that doesn't commit you (and you're practically already committed anyway).
And... as I've found out painfully more than once... pushing all-in into a scare card when you don't have any idea what your opponents hold, while you have a potential second place hand... it's just in general not a great idea. I'm much more worried about a nut flush than a full house.
...Before the river that is. I'm just saying the cold-call for two pot bets on the flop and turn should be a cause for concern. Unraised pot... don't wanna commit too many chips in an unraised pot.
And... as I've found out painfully more than once... pushing all-in into a scare card when you don't have any idea what your opponents hold, while you have a potential second place hand... it's just in general not a great idea. I'm much more worried about a nut flush than a full house.
...Before the river that is. I'm just saying the cold-call for two pot bets on the flop and turn should be a cause for concern. Unraised pot... don't wanna commit too many chips in an unraised pot.
QUOTE (TJ_Eckleburg)
That's why everyone on the forum loves me (:
My point is you SHOULD call for value and pot size... but try to avoid these situations by realizing what happens when you flop good but potentially second place hands horribly out of position in an unraised pot where you have no information about anything.
My point is you SHOULD call for value and pot size... but try to avoid these situations by realizing what happens when you flop good but potentially second place hands horribly out of position in an unraised pot where you have no information about anything.
how could I have avoided it?
I was the big blind, so I saw the flop for free. Raise pre-flop when it is limped to me? I don't think so (but that is just me).
I flopped a pretty good flush, so I bet out. Not a weak bet either (in my opinion), but a pot sized bet. They called. Should I have checked here?
Turn was (seemingly) no help to anyone else, so I again bet out, again with what I would deem to be a good sized bet. They called. Should I have checked here?
I believe I played the hand correctly, with the possible exception of the river where I checked. Victim of circumstance, nothing more. :roll:
That's what sucks about these situations... they really can't be avoided.
You definitely can't check the flop or turn.
That's why it's driving all of us crazy. There's no really good way to play it because we got so set up to get railed.
I'm curious though...
Was it a boat or a better flush? My money's on a better flush.
You definitely can't check the flop or turn.
That's why it's driving all of us crazy. There's no really good way to play it because we got so set up to get railed.
I'm curious though...
Was it a boat or a better flush? My money's on a better flush.
QUOTE (TJ_Eckleburg)
That's what sucks about these situations... they really can't be avoided.
You definitely can't check the flop or turn.
That's why it's driving all of us crazy. There's no really good way to play it because we got so set up to get railed.
I'm curious though...
Was it a boat or a better flush? My money's on a better flush.
You definitely can't check the flop or turn.
That's why it's driving all of us crazy. There's no really good way to play it because we got so set up to get railed.
I'm curious though...
Was it a boat or a better flush? My money's on a better flush.
The answer is posted above. However, as people are so fond of telling me in another forum that I am debating on right now, the results don't matter, only what the "correct" play is. I cry bullshyte to those people. :wink:
QUOTE
The answer is posted above. However, as people are so fond of telling me in another forum that I am debating on right now, the results don't matter, only what the "correct" play is. I cry bullshyte to those people.
You win, the results matter more.
Poker isn't a game of math or anything.
JFarrell, I think you might have just found a new member for your team.
So I'm an idiot because I've been posting all this time not knowing the result. Oh well.
At least you can take comfort in the fact that Villain is an uber-huckle for not raising you on the flop. I hate these situations... that's what I'm trying to get across.
At least you can take comfort in the fact that Villain is an uber-huckle for not raising you on the flop. I hate these situations... that's what I'm trying to get across.
QUOTE (TJ_Eckleburg)
So I'm an idiot because I've been posting all this time not knowing the result. Oh well.
At least you can take comfort in the fact that Villain is an uber-huckle for not raising you on the flop. I hate these situations... that's what I'm trying to get across.
At least you can take comfort in the fact that Villain is an uber-huckle for not raising you on the flop. I hate these situations... that's what I'm trying to get across.
i agree, the villian played it poorly
maybe it was rocketwasher
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.