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Full Version: Two Pairs On Flop
FCP Poker Forum > Poker Strategy Forum > No Limit Texas Hold'em Cash Games
BudBundy
Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.15/$0.25
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $8.40
UTG+1: $28.78
MP1: $20.35
MP2: $15.45
MP3: $7.15
CO: $24.44
Button: $25
SB: $15.32
Hero: $27.75

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is BB with A icon_suit_diamond.gif 6 icon_suit_spade.gif
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to $0.5, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO calls, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: J icon_suit_diamond.gif 6 icon_suit_heart.gif A icon_suit_heart.gif ($2.15, 4 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $0.75, MP2 folds, CO calls, Hero raises to $4, UTG+1 calls, CO folds.

Turn: 8 icon_suit_diamond.gif ($10.9, 2 players)
Hero is all-in $23.25, UTG+1

So i am trying to play NLHE for the last two days. I have never really played or learnt this game. I was only playing occasionally after tilting from omaha.

Should i lead flop?

Should i bet turn instead of pushing? I thought there was a good chance i will get called by AK , Aq on these stakes. Also i tried to punish a flush draw.
rdtedm
Definitely lead the turn. If villain is flat calling your big raise after the flop, he likely has a weak ace or a draw. Betting hard here gives him terrible odds to outdraw you, and either makes him think you're bluffing, or makes him fold. 90% of the time I think you're ahead here.

All-in is okay here if you don't want him to outdraw you, but he's likely drawing to 3 outs if he has an ace, or potentially 9 if he has a flush draw. If not all-in, at LEAST a pot-size bet here is warranted.
BudBundy
QUOTE (rdtedm @ Saturday, March 24th, 2007, 8:21 PM) *
Definitely lead the flop


FYP?
Sefaje
Nah, I think going for the c/r was fine there. If you bet out, and it's not raised behind you, then the pot isn't going to build like it would with a c/r. I wouldn't lead this unless I was sure that someone with a weaker hand would raise.

The flop play was fine. I personally wouldn't have shoved the turn --- I'd have bet about $10-11. But since you're OOP and most cards that don't improve your hand on the river are scary, this isn't awful (especially since you're a holdem newb smile.gif). Really the only "mistake" you could make is checking or betting too small.

----

It's hard to put villain on a hand here. minraising and then betting 3BB into the 4way pot is weird. sometimes he'll have a monster but AK/AQ/KK/QQ/KQh are frequent enough at 25NL for you to play for stacks i think.
linkwood
QUOTE (Sefaje @ Saturday, March 24th, 2007, 9:50 AM) *
Nah, I think going for the c/r was fine there. If you bet out, and it's not raised behind you, then the pot isn't going to build like it would with a c/r. I wouldn't lead this unless I was sure that someone with a weaker hand would raise.

The flop play was fine. I personally wouldn't have shoved the turn --- I'd have bet about $10-11. But since you're OOP and most cards that don't improve your hand on the river are scary, this isn't awful (especially since you're a holdem newb smile.gif). Really the only "mistake" you could make is checking or betting too small.

----

It's hard to put villain on a hand here. minraising and then betting 3BB into the 4way pot is weird. sometimes he'll have a monster but AK/AQ/KK/QQ/KQh are frequent enough at 25NL for you to play for stacks i think.


I agree here. the villians play is weird, but i think c/r the flop and then leading the turn with a 3/4 pot sized bet is your best play. you have a fairly big hand and you want to get paid for it. betting too much makes people drop hands that might have called a smaller bet. one of the keys to nl holdem is to bet your hands in such a way that you make your opponents make mistakes to call, but also that you get value for them.

as an aside, since you're new to hold em, until you get more experience i would suggest not playing hands like weak off suit aces OOP like this. even though you were getting huge pot odds from the BB you still have the issue of having to play a hand that you will likely be faced with tough decisions with after the flop, even if you hit your hand. it would actually be better to play 75 suited in this spot than a6o, IMO. Hands like that, while still difficult to play OOP, are easy in that you either hit your hand hard, or flop a big draw, or you dump it. with a6o, what happens when the board comes 2-4-6 and you get a lot of heat on the flop? it makes things more difficult.
No_Neck
QUOTE (Sefaje @ Saturday, March 24th, 2007, 12:50 PM) *
Nah, I think going for the c/r was fine there. If you bet out, and it's not raised behind you, then the pot isn't going to build like it would with a c/r. I wouldn't lead this unless I was sure that someone with a weaker hand would raise.

The flop play was fine. I personally wouldn't have shoved the turn --- I'd have bet about $10-11. But since you're OOP and most cards that don't improve your hand on the river are scary, this isn't awful (especially since you're a holdem newb smile.gif). Really the only "mistake" you could make is checking or betting too small.


If you bet 10-11 on the turn you can not fold the river no matter what comes.
linkwood
QUOTE (No_Neck @ Saturday, March 24th, 2007, 10:36 AM) *
If you bet 10-11 on the turn you can not fold the river no matter what comes.



i think you can with certain cards. what if the jack of hearts falls? now, even getting 3 or 4 to one i can't see calling anything.
Sefaje
QUOTE (No_Neck @ Saturday, March 24th, 2007, 12:36 PM) *
If you bet 10-11 on the turn you can not fold the river no matter what comes.


I think a Jack or an eight is definitely a fold. Especially if either completes a flush draw. Also, it's not that he wants to fold the river, it's that he doesn't want villain to get to decide whether or not money goes in on the river.
Zach6668
QUOTE (rdtedm @ Saturday, March 24th, 2007, 12:21 PM) *
Definitely lead the turn. If villain is flat calling your big raise after the flop, he likely has a weak ace or a draw. Betting hard here gives him terrible odds to outdraw you, and either makes him think you're bluffing, or makes him fold. 90% of the time I think you're ahead here.

All-in is okay here if you don't want him to outdraw you, but he's likely drawing to 3 outs if he has an ace, or potentially 9 if he has a flush draw. If not all-in, at LEAST a pot-size bet here is warranted.

Any ace > A6 has 9 outs to beat us, well, some of those are chop outs if he has A7.
No_Neck
QUOTE (Sefaje @ Saturday, March 24th, 2007, 2:14 PM) *
I think a Jack or an eight is definitely a fold. Especially if either completes a flush draw. Also, it's not that he wants to fold the river, it's that he doesn't want villain to get to decide whether or not money goes in on the river.



oops I should have mentioned that yeah if there is a hand to counterfit the two pair that is ok fold. I was talking about if the flush hits or some straight draw hits you have to call his bet.
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