I posted this in another thread however..

The Leafs have lost 297 man games to injury this year..This is fourth worst in the league behind Philly, Chicago and St louis...We all know how these teams are doing.
Not only have they lost this many man games, its been to their top players.

Also in the article Maurice talks about the "save the crosby campaign" that the Penguins have been promoting..This has led to them getting way more power plays than they should.

I honestly believe that the Leafs are top 4 team in the conference.

Please read the article

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/Games...3732004-cp.html

Wow, the coach of the team is backing up his squad. I'm convinced now...


Paul Maurice quote: "We're not going to be an elite team. We'll be in tough to make eighth place in the conference"

Thats a safe statement..This team is definetely an elite team...They have survived massive injuries to still fight for the playoff spot..

keep spinning

I wish they kept the stat of drawing penalties because Crosby would have to be up there. It's also not because he's a diver, it's because D can't keep up with him and are forced to hook/hold him.

Watch the games and you'll see that they earn the power plays they get from working hard.

Serge, you made more sense when you were on your pouting time out....

FACT: Elite teams have elite goaltending. Raycroft is adequate. He is not a star.
Fact: Elite teams have strong defense. 'Nuff said. Kaberle is a borderline elite defenseman. After that... forget it.
Fact: Elite teams are strong down the middle. Sundin is a hall of famer. After that??? No, serge, wellwood is good, but not elite. YOu can't sell that.
Fact: Elite teams have two lines that can dominate. The Leafs don't.


The TRUE plusses the leafs have? Great coaching. Maurice has done an amazing job. A hall of fame can't-be-stopped-when-he-doesnt-want-to-be centre in Sundin. He is in the top 5 in the NHL when it comes to power centres. No question about it. Too bad he has no support.....

Crosby embelishes everything, if he gets high sticked he yells and then goes down. Sundin got high sticked last night against the Lightning by Boyle, no call and Boyle goes down the ice and scores. Same thing happened a few game back against Montreal.

you're joking right? do you have no sense of logic, or just ignore it. Gruven simply gave an exact quote, from the exact same source. No spin. You took an article and came to your own conclusions. You took his quote, and suggested an alternative motive. That is spin.

You spun, Gruven quoted.

Raycroft is more than adequate and he has done a great job this year
The young guys White and Carlo C have done a great job and Kubina and Gill have performed ok...Mccabe is an elite offensive defenceman
With the team healthy two solid line are there...Not to many teams can match up

Keep spinning...the fact of the matter is this is a very well balanced team....and they are not that far away from contending

Serge, it's really interesting how you pick out comments from Maurice that support your stance and disregard his comments that contradict you. And by 'interesting' I mean 'gradeschool'.

You sir are acting like a donkey...You usually post good things..but that quote is nowhere in the article...Gruven probably heard him saying it somewhere(probably off the record without reporters)....Thanks again for showing how donkish you guys can be.

I repeat THAT QUOTE IS NOT FROM THAT ARTICLE...

Just because gruven says it to be true , it doesnt mean its there..


DONKEY and MONKEY...good combo

Did I mention that quote or the article you linked specifically?

I just love how logical it is to compare the amount of power plays the Pens either do or do not receive to how the Leafs are doing. I think I'm witnessing online tourette's.

thank you, but you are still contradicting yourself. assuming gruven is not lying, the quote not being in the article suggests the opposite of spin. as you said, it was probably not said to reporters (since gruven is...a ghost?)

you are suggesting that your interpretation of a public article is more accurate than something maurice said and had no reason to disguise. yours is full of spin, and the other completely lacks it.

i do disagree with the entire thing though. yeah, the leafs have lost more man-games than most other teams, but our injury situation has not been significantly worse than plenty of other teams. arguably our most important players (sundin, kaberle, raycroft) have missed little to no time. and some of the important players we did miss (tucker, antropov, ponny, etc) wouldn't have been such a big problem if we had players to fill their shoes a bit better than kris newbury and boyd deveraux.

Maurice said what Gruven quoted at the beginning of the the season.

it seems to me that the leafs have a lot of heart and effort but not a whole lot of elite skill outside of sundin, kaberle and, offensively, mccabe.

there is no doubt the guys work hard but in terms of pure skill at forward i would say they are certainly in the bottom half of the league. that they are competing is testament to great coaching now doubt but in my opinion they dont seem to have that wow factor that scares you when you look at there forward group. buffalo have there brieres, vaneks, drury; ottawa has alfreddson, heatley, spezza; atlanta has kovalchuk, tkachuk, hossa; new jersey has elias, gionta, gomez.

toronto has sundin, tucker and o'neill, not really in the same league. i think that is the difference between the leafs struggling to make the playoffs off and pushing on to becoming a top 4 team. too many grinders, not enough flair.

I'd rather have an elite defensive defenseman that does not give the puck away

Boyle scored because Tucker was too busy crying to the ref instead of joining the play

People who dont have knowledge of the argument should not post....

YOu can argue all day...I know i m right

because its all in marketing...The penguins are whiners, they are doing all they could in the media to protect Crosby....Crosby in all honesty is a wimp and a crybaby...That is the fact and if you dont think its true you are blind. Not saying he is not an exceptional talent...He is just a crybaby

then you sir are a bigger donkey then we believed...Mccabe is a phenomenal defenceman...He is a compliment to the other dman that we have..

Please go back to wiping the toilets and cleaning out the slurpee machine.

Do you think McCabe is worth the money he is paid? (Highest paid Leaf if memory serves me right)

you argument is that the leafs arnt first as they have suffered injuries my argument is that even with a fully fit 23 they dont have enough top end skill to compete with the best team in the east. plenty of heart yes, fearful scoring prowess no. if i dont have knowledge of the argument in your opinion then that is fine but we are all entitled to our opinions. telling me i shouldnt post is a little arrogant eh?

yes I am arrogant however you are entitled to your own opinion..I dont agree but I respect...

to governator..


Mccabe at 3 million is great...so he is a bit overpaid

You must not be paying attention when watching the Leafs play! McCabe is NOT a phenomenal defenseman! The fact that you even argue that he is tells me you are not a very intelligent human being. As far as wiping toilets and cleaning out slurpee machines...those jobs are usually reserved for Leaf fans. Thank you.

i have watched almost every minute of the Leafs this year along with the pre game, post game , all day analysis..

MCcabe is probably top 5 when its comes to offensive dman..

you sir are a donkey

McCabe
Kaberle
Kubina
Gill
Colaicovo
White

The Leafs have a solid group of defencemen. Who has a better collective group of defencemen in the East?

exactly.....BURN on the leaf haters

I know you have watched every minute...You just have not been paying attention...there is a difference. I will admit that McCabe is a good offesive defenseman (not top 5 though) BUT even you cannot believe he is an elite defenseman. Elite defensemen usually have their names mentioned when discussing Norris Trophy candidates...I don't hear McCabe's name ever mentioned...I wonder why??? I actually like McCabe when he isn't giving the puck away or crying about being booed or whining to the refs.

I love the leafs and our defense has improved tremendously over the past couple seasons. However even though he's a great offensive dman.. that greatness always leads to this famous statement I hear almost every game "McCabe coughs up the Puck, here's a chance infront of the net [INSERT X HERE]

x = "What a save by Raycroft" OR
x = "Scooores"

Maybe it's because he gets the most ice time or perhaps he's a bit lazy with the puck (My guess is a combo of both) but regardless, it's frustrating when it happens.

I'm not agreeing with your assessment (because you're pointless to reason with), but I'd still love to know - if you believe this - how it relates to how the Leafs are doing. You make no sense. (not that I'm ever surprised anymore)

I brought it up because Paul Maurice brought it up...Read the article I posted in this post....Maurice said it more politically correct way but he meant the same thing...ITs because they whine that they lead the league in powerplays...Maurice thinks maybe we should whine too..

Sorry, but any article that you quote like the gospel is one that I don't need to waste time on. Perhaps if Maurice was a bit more worried about his team than a non-divisional opponent, they'd be a place or 2 higher in the standings.

if the leafs make the playoffs...I guarantee they play more games than the Penguins...

until someone like Gruven or DM offers you a bet. Then you'll modify that statement somewhat, ask for 4-1 odds, and then drop the matter altogether.

I smell a bet here. 5 bucks now and you have to pay even if the leafs don't make the playoffs.

the bet is IF they make the playoffs they will play more games than the Penguins...

Well the leafs are 3-6 vs the team that would eliminate them in the first round (Sabres/Devils). But the good news is that they still have 3 more game against these teams and there going to have to make their record 5-7 at least to make it.

But serge, in the other threads, you are practically guaranteeing that the Leafs will make the playoffs...

when are you gonna understand the Leafs team today is not the same one of 2 months ago..

This is a stanley cup contending team....Sounds funny eh??I am not laughing

Here's a few for starters...

Buffalo
Tallinder
Lydman
Kalinin
Numminen
Paetsch (Spacek injured)
Campbell

New Jersey
White
Rafalski
Oduya
Martin
Greene
Lukowich

Ottawa
Redden
Meszaros
Phillips
Vovhenkov
Corvo
Preissing

Matter of opinion..I will study this closely...Hey Dale, check out the thread in general off topic forum...

its funny...its called QUESTION

thanks, i was too lazy to look it up. ottawa and buffalo are pretty clear. new jersey's D plays better, but on an individual basis i don't think they're players are better than the leafs'.

then again, kubina sucks butt, and i really don't feel mccabe helps his team very much, no matter how many points he gets. the leafs top 6 D is slightly above-average, though we do have one of the better top pairings i guess. when you consider depth i guess we're average, though if you consider cost as well, we're probably not even average for the east.

you have this way of typing a lot while not saying very much.

Jersey every year proves its a team game. I don't think any team in the league plays as a team and believes in a concept like the devils. To be 2 points out of first in the conference shows how good they are. They get timely goals, great goaltending and rarely commit turnovers or stupid penalties. They will be the team to beat in the East.

dont forget they play such an exciting brand of hockey(said with tongue firmly planted in cheek)

Are you going to tell us that you'd rather lose while playing exciting hockey than win while playing boring hockey?

And I don't necessarily agree that New Jersey plays a boring style.

It really is just a stereotype, at this point.

NJ plays a boring style if you're the team playing them. That's because they shut your team down and counterattack. If you're a fan of the devils, it's fun to watch them frustrate a team to death, then counterpunch like lightning and score....

Mmm lets see they have a 186 goals for...which is only one more than last place in goals in the east(Philly)....They dont score a lot and they win....lets look at the board tonite...hmmmmmm losing 1-0