Playing 2/4 PLO 6max. Bought in short for 200. Have about 850 in front of me. In the Big blind. Button is kind of a donk who I have taken about 250 bucks off of already. He has about 350 in front. SB is tight and has about 400 in front.
I get dealt Ad4c7c9d. MPs fold. Button min raises to 8. Sb calls. I call.
Flop comes: 9c7s3c
sb checks, I check, button bets half pot (14)....SB thinks for 30 secs and then just calls. Hmmmm. I debate and just call.
Turn: 2s
looks safe. gotta define where I am at. SB checks, I bet the pot (70), button thinks for a bit and calls, SB (who I was more worried about folds.) I have no idea where the button is now.
River: 10h
I debate whether to bet half the pot or just check. I wuss out and check. He bets the pot (210) fairly quickly. I think I am ahead probably (maybe donk is overplaying aces???) but I wuss out again and fold and then instantly leave the table.
How bad did i screw this up?
Full Version: Plo Decision
QUOTE (CaneBrain @ Friday, February 16th, 2007, 11:31 AM) 
Have about 850 in front of me. In the Big blind.
i stopped reading there.
fold preflop.
we have a strat section.
goodluck.
First mistake: I get dealt Ad4c7c9d. MPs fold. Button min raises to 8. Sb calls. I call.
QUOTE (navybuttons @ Friday, February 16th, 2007, 11:34 AM)
i stopped reading there. thanks for stopping in to be unhelpful
fold preflop. you fold a double suited hand in a 6 max game to a min raise?? obviously if I put coal in your butt I would get a diamond in a week.
we have a strat section. I am a man of the people and therefore I do my posting in general.
goodluck. thank you very little.
fold preflop. you fold a double suited hand in a 6 max game to a min raise?? obviously if I put coal in your butt I would get a diamond in a week.
we have a strat section. I am a man of the people and therefore I do my posting in general.
goodluck. thank you very little.
QUOTE (FourFlusher @ Friday, February 16th, 2007, 11:35 AM)
First mistake: I get dealt Ad4c7c9d. MPs fold. Button min raises to 8. Sb calls. I call.
wow, I cannot believe how tight you guys are advising me to play in a 2/4 6 max PLO game. I am getting 5-1 on my preflop call with a mediocre hand. That seems about right to me.
QUOTE (FourFlusher @ Friday, February 16th, 2007, 11:35 AM)
First mistake: I get dealt Ad4c7c9d. MPs fold. Button min raises to 8. Sb calls. I call.
It was a min-raise and this is Omaha - I don't mind taking a flop here at all. We've got 2 flush draws and some connected cards. We could be in a lot worse shape than this.
EDIT: Oops, I mis-read the suits, our flush draw is ****. Even more reason to dump it after the flop.
I would call the min raise preflop, so I am not as tight as the rest.
but after that I would probably get away from the hand. You could be a head on the flop, but you are probably not a favorite to hold up.
Once your bet was called you have to give someone credit for having you beat. Your flush draw is weak and your straight draws are not to the nuts, so basically you are down to 4 outs to a full house.
You made a stab bet after the flop, which is fine, but after that I would be in check/fold mode.
but after that I would probably get away from the hand. You could be a head on the flop, but you are probably not a favorite to hold up.
Once your bet was called you have to give someone credit for having you beat. Your flush draw is weak and your straight draws are not to the nuts, so basically you are down to 4 outs to a full house.
You made a stab bet after the flop, which is fine, but after that I would be in check/fold mode.
you asked where you went wrong. when i read that you were deepstacked in the BB and called a raise i stopped reading because i had the answer. calling the raise in the BB w/ more than one caller is precisely where you first went wrong.
if your question is "i misclicked and called preflop, how should i play it from here?" then my answer is:
flop: fold
turn: fold
river: fold
you make money in PLO by playing big pots in position w/ monster hands and monster re-draws. you have none of those things here.
if your question is "i misclicked and called preflop, how should i play it from here?" then my answer is:
flop: fold
turn: fold
river: fold
you make money in PLO by playing big pots in position w/ monster hands and monster re-draws. you have none of those things here.
i don't think you screwed up the hand that bad, i personally don't think the guy had aces on the end, i think he probably made a straight with some kinda wrap with no flush draw to go with it. That would probably explain why he played the hand kind of passive, because he didn't want to be up against the nut flush draw. The only thing i might have done is tried to keep the pot a little smaller, your hand is pretty marginal, and if it is the best hand, it won't be much of a favorite. I don't have that much experience playing omaha, but thats what i would've done at least.
QUOTE (JaxxVain @ Friday, February 16th, 2007, 11:53 AM)
I would call the min raise preflop, so I am not as tight as the rest.
but after that I would probably get away from the hand. You could be a head on the flop, but you are probably not a favorite to hold up.
Once your bet was called you have to give someone credit for having you beat. Your flush draw is weak and your straight draws are not to the nuts, so basically you are down to 4 outs to a full house.
You made a stab bet after the flop, which is fine, but after that I would be in check/fold mode.
but after that I would probably get away from the hand. You could be a head on the flop, but you are probably not a favorite to hold up.
Once your bet was called you have to give someone credit for having you beat. Your flush draw is weak and your straight draws are not to the nuts, so basically you are down to 4 outs to a full house.
You made a stab bet after the flop, which is fine, but after that I would be in check/fold mode.
agreed
With this kind of hand whatever you hit , it will be very vulnerable. Fold preflop.
I would probably fold PF. Failing that, you can try a check-raise on the flop and try to take it down there. Check-calling the flop and leading out the turn doesn't really get you any information. Since you check-called the flop, you should check the turn. Your hand didn't improve, and you still don't know what you're up against. The river is an obvious fold.
these responses are what you would expect to get from some really passive/scared omaha players. The call I do not mind at all, especially since you have a decent read on the Donk, and the SB. I would have check-raised the flop, mainly for information. I hate the check-call, and then come out and bet the turn play, especially vs someone you have taken a lot of chips off of. The way you played it he is more likely going to call our of pure frustration any sort of draw. Also, in this type of game agression wins. A check-raise (you are at least 65% to win vs any 4 random cards here, including a higher flush draw) wins the pot on the flop.
Pf: Fold. You can't play this hand profitably oop even for a min-raise. (As is evidenced by your post)
Flop: Bet/3bet ai or C/r and jam blank turns like the one that hit. This is pretty much the best possible flop for you. You have top 2 w/a flush draw, and on this board its highly unlikely that someone has a set. Try and get it all in here. Lol@ppl saying fold the flop with top 2 and a flush draw on this board and action pf.
Turn:Pot. This is a blank, if you had the best hand on the flop you still have the best hand. Its almost 99% likely you have the best hand atm if he doesn't raise this turn.
River: Fold, unless you have a have a read that villian always tries to steal pots away on the turn or river when you check. Your check has just induced a bluff, and its possible he has a bustoed fd. This is a read based decision. With no read just muck however. You shouldn't have been put to this decision in the first place as you should have already jammed the pot on the flop and turn.
Flop: Bet/3bet ai or C/r and jam blank turns like the one that hit. This is pretty much the best possible flop for you. You have top 2 w/a flush draw, and on this board its highly unlikely that someone has a set. Try and get it all in here. Lol@ppl saying fold the flop with top 2 and a flush draw on this board and action pf.
Turn:Pot. This is a blank, if you had the best hand on the flop you still have the best hand. Its almost 99% likely you have the best hand atm if he doesn't raise this turn.
River: Fold, unless you have a have a read that villian always tries to steal pots away on the turn or river when you check. Your check has just induced a bluff, and its possible he has a bustoed fd. This is a read based decision. With no read just muck however. You shouldn't have been put to this decision in the first place as you should have already jammed the pot on the flop and turn.
River I think I make a half pot bet at the river. Take the play away from him. If he raises you know you are beat, if he calls you probably take it down.
The world needs more PLO players so I think posting at the general forum definitely has its value.
As said if OP has a good read that button is a donk and it costs only one 1 big blind, then I don't mind to take a look at the flop. But keep this in mind, when you hit, you want to hit the nut flush or the nut straight (all in all, in plo you want to hit a made hand with good redraws and play hands in position), and the reason you are playing hand out of position is because you want to encourage others to do the same while you do it cheaply and others do it expensively.
Top two with just a weak flush redraw and being out of position means fold (in this case you had a very weak made hand and very weak redraw. Many hands can run close in value with yours on the flop, and more importantly many hands can outplay you in position on later streets). This is not NLH and you don't want to put more money there.
Edited, another reason to fold is the pot is small and you have no control of the size of the pot. Even when you repot on the flop the pot is still small. You don't want to lose your stack or get outplayed later streets. If you think folding sucks here, you are always welcomed to play at PS's 1000 plo 6-max.
Good luck.
As said if OP has a good read that button is a donk and it costs only one 1 big blind, then I don't mind to take a look at the flop. But keep this in mind, when you hit, you want to hit the nut flush or the nut straight (all in all, in plo you want to hit a made hand with good redraws and play hands in position), and the reason you are playing hand out of position is because you want to encourage others to do the same while you do it cheaply and others do it expensively.
Top two with just a weak flush redraw and being out of position means fold (in this case you had a very weak made hand and very weak redraw. Many hands can run close in value with yours on the flop, and more importantly many hands can outplay you in position on later streets). This is not NLH and you don't want to put more money there.
Edited, another reason to fold is the pot is small and you have no control of the size of the pot. Even when you repot on the flop the pot is still small. You don't want to lose your stack or get outplayed later streets. If you think folding sucks here, you are always welcomed to play at PS's 1000 plo 6-max.
Good luck.
QUOTE (HoosierAlum @ Friday, February 16th, 2007, 1:30 PM)
Pf: Fold. You can't play this hand profitably oop even for a min-raise. (As is evidenced by your post)
Flop: Bet/3bet ai or C/r and jam blank turns like the one that hit. This is pretty much the best possible flop for you. You have top 2 w/a flush draw, and on this board its highly unlikely that someone has a set. Try and get it all in here. Lol@ppl saying fold the flop with top 2 and a flush draw on this board and action pf.
Turn:Pot. This is a blank, if you had the best hand on the flop you still have the best hand. Its almost 99% likely you have the best hand atm if he doesn't raise this turn.
River: Fold, unless you have a have a read that villian always tries to steal pots away on the turn or river when you check. Your check has just induced a bluff, and its possible he has a bustoed fd. This is a read based decision. With no read just muck however. You shouldn't have been put to this decision in the first place as you should have already jammed the pot on the flop and turn.
Flop: Bet/3bet ai or C/r and jam blank turns like the one that hit. This is pretty much the best possible flop for you. You have top 2 w/a flush draw, and on this board its highly unlikely that someone has a set. Try and get it all in here. Lol@ppl saying fold the flop with top 2 and a flush draw on this board and action pf.
Turn:Pot. This is a blank, if you had the best hand on the flop you still have the best hand. Its almost 99% likely you have the best hand atm if he doesn't raise this turn.
River: Fold, unless you have a have a read that villian always tries to steal pots away on the turn or river when you check. Your check has just induced a bluff, and its possible he has a bustoed fd. This is a read based decision. With no read just muck however. You shouldn't have been put to this decision in the first place as you should have already jammed the pot on the flop and turn.
hoosier is goot.
QUOTE (check_blazer @ Friday, February 16th, 2007, 1:29 PM)
these responses are what you would expect to get from some really passive/scared omaha players.
wrong. i'm actually quite laggy. someday you might understand.
QUOTE (HoosierAlum @ Friday, February 16th, 2007, 1:30 PM)
Flop: Bet/3bet ai or C/r and jam blank turns like the one that hit. This is pretty much the best possible flop for you. You have top 2 w/a flush draw, and on this board its highly unlikely that someone has a set. Try and get it all in here. Lol@ppl saying fold the flop with top 2 and a flush draw on this board and action pf.
if you can 3 bet a/i it wouldn't be the worst thing ever, but that requires a lot of co-operation from the villain and any hand that's coming is gonna have at best (for hero) 12 outs to the turn and 15 to the river, and hero could be drawing dead. even if hero gets a safe turn he can't get it all in, and even if he could he might be in bad shape. say he gets a good turn, he's still gonna need a good river, and he still may be behind.
there's no value in this hand on the flop. it's a fold. it's definately up for debate and i'm not saying that continuing is the worst thing ever but i'm not getting stacked w/ it.
QUOTE (JacKingOff_suit @ Friday, February 16th, 2007, 2:07 PM)
The world needs more PLO players so I think posting at the general forum definitely has its value.
As said if OP has a good read that button is a donk and it costs only one 1 big blind, then I don't mind to take a look at the flop. But keep this in mind, when you hit, you want to hit the nut flush or the nut straight (all in all, in plo you want to hit a made hand with good redraws and play hands in position), and the reason you are playing hand out of position is because you want to encourage others to do the same while you do it cheaply and others do it expensively.
Top two with just a weak flush redraw and being out of position means fold (in this case you had a very weak made hand and very weak redraw. Many hands can run close in value with yours on the flop, and more importantly many hands can outplay you in position on later streets). This is not NLH and you don't want to put more money there.
Edited, another reason to fold is the pot is small and you have no control of the size of the pot. Even when you repot on the flop the pot is still small. You don't want to lose your stack or get outplayed later streets. If you think folding sucks here, you are always welcomed to play at PS's 1000 plo 6-max.
Good luck.
As said if OP has a good read that button is a donk and it costs only one 1 big blind, then I don't mind to take a look at the flop. But keep this in mind, when you hit, you want to hit the nut flush or the nut straight (all in all, in plo you want to hit a made hand with good redraws and play hands in position), and the reason you are playing hand out of position is because you want to encourage others to do the same while you do it cheaply and others do it expensively.
Top two with just a weak flush redraw and being out of position means fold (in this case you had a very weak made hand and very weak redraw. Many hands can run close in value with yours on the flop, and more importantly many hands can outplay you in position on later streets). This is not NLH and you don't want to put more money there.
Edited, another reason to fold is the pot is small and you have no control of the size of the pot. Even when you repot on the flop the pot is still small. You don't want to lose your stack or get outplayed later streets. If you think folding sucks here, you are always welcomed to play at PS's 1000 plo 6-max.
Good luck.
god, i really missed you. i know you didn't really go anywhere but it's nice having you around.
I appreciate all the advice. It still feels to tight to me to fold here preflop (especially because I wanted to play hands with the button donk....he was terribly) but in light of hoosier's advice and others I guess i might have to re-evaluate.
personally, I thought at the time and now that my biggest mistake was not check-raising the flop.
I also think this thread shows that it is good to ask serious questions in general. I got a lot of good advice in this thread (even from navybuttons who likes to straddle the line between helpful and pain in the ***) and there is a lot of good discussion about general omaha theory.
by the by hoosier, if you are thinking of becoming a working stiff you should think about law school instead of a job. sally mae is a nice lady.
personally, I thought at the time and now that my biggest mistake was not check-raising the flop.
I also think this thread shows that it is good to ask serious questions in general. I got a lot of good advice in this thread (even from navybuttons who likes to straddle the line between helpful and pain in the ***) and there is a lot of good discussion about general omaha theory.
by the by hoosier, if you are thinking of becoming a working stiff you should think about law school instead of a job. sally mae is a nice lady.
QUOTE (CaneBrain @ Friday, February 16th, 2007, 2:30 PM)
I appreciate all the advice. It still feels to tight to me to fold here preflop (especially because I wanted to play hands with the button donk....he was terribly) but in light of hoosier's advice and others I guess i might have to re-evaluate.
personally, I thought at the time and now that my biggest mistake was not check-raising the flop.
I also think this thread shows that it is good to ask serious questions in general. I got a lot of good advice in this thread (even from navybuttons who likes to straddle the line between helpful and pain in the ***) and there is a lot of good discussion about general omaha theory.
by the by hoosier, if you are thinking of becoming a working stiff you should think about law school instead of a job. sally mae is a nice lady.
personally, I thought at the time and now that my biggest mistake was not check-raising the flop.
I also think this thread shows that it is good to ask serious questions in general. I got a lot of good advice in this thread (even from navybuttons who likes to straddle the line between helpful and pain in the ***) and there is a lot of good discussion about general omaha theory.
by the by hoosier, if you are thinking of becoming a working stiff you should think about law school instead of a job. sally mae is a nice lady.
fair enough. i'm glad we discussed it. i didn't mean to be a pain is the ***. but like every other dipshit i think i'm really smart and can't see how i could be abrassive.
anyway, good thread.here's the best discussion this forum ever had re PLO:
http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...showtopic=28876
warning: it's not a discussion.
QUOTE (navybuttons @ Friday, February 16th, 2007, 10:41 PM)
fair enough. i'm glad we discussed it. i didn't mean to be a pain is the ***. but like every other dipshit i think i'm really smart and can't see how i could be abrassive. anyway, good thread.
here's the best discussion this forum ever had re PLO:
http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...showtopic=28876
warning: it's not a discussion.
anyway, good thread.here's the best discussion this forum ever had re PLO:
http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...showtopic=28876
warning: it's not a discussion.
Wow, you think so???
Kinda says that not much good discussion goes on then...
QUOTE (JacKingOff_suit @ Friday, February 16th, 2007, 4:07 PM)
The world needs more PLO players so I think posting at the general forum definitely has its value.
one part of this statement is true, and one is false, I'll let you be the judge
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