Difficult to think of many people at welterweight with jitz as good as Hazelett.

Pretty sure Chuck is around a 2-1 favorite. I think they're both washed up. I mean Shogun was losing a fight to Mark Coleman! I have to go with Chuck on this one. Chuck won't gas.

I thought exactly the same way about the Shogun Chuck fight at first but I am starting to think if I can get Shogun at +180 or better I will bet him. Chuck fits more into what Shogun can thrive on a stand up striking battle. It was the grappling with the 2 bigger men in Forrest and Coleman that gassed Shogun in there fights something that he wont contend with against Chuck. Plus the fact that if Shogun loses he is pretty much done with the UFC. Its been a long time since Chuck has KO'd anyone.

I'm not sure if I want a piece of this fight either way. I agree with some of the things you said. However, this is a similar fight to the one Chuck had with Vanderlei. Chuck can actually dictate where this fight goes because of his wrestling.

Both of these guys have been really hit or miss lately. Mostly miss.

Essentially this fight will come down to who wants the win more......

Gonna be out of town next week so I am betting the next card this week. I already bet Gonzaga biggish but think I will stay away from Rampage at -400. Any value in Jardine at +250? Also looking at Hammil at -160 but havent pulled the trigger on that one. Maybe something smallish on Day as Grove didnt look good against a washed up Tanner. I want to bet Anderson Silva -450 right now but dont really want to tie up a big bet for that long.

I definitely like Jardine at that line. He seems to step it up in big fights. I actually wouldn't be surprised if he took this one.

meh the line dropped on Gonzaga from -200 to -175 so I did the only thing to do in that situation and doubled my bet

This a 17 page response to the NSAC regarding the greasing allegations from trainers in Georges corner and other trainers. It's a long read but contains a lot of good info:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blo...ac_response.pdf

Cliffnotes?

Beating Stevenson in a stand up fight is nothing to be proud of. I don't remember him knocking anyone out or even stunning anyone since he has been in the UFC. He is more of a gullotine choke guy.
It seemed to me Sanchez was very cautious being his first time @ 155 and didn't want to gas. I think in his next fight you see the same super aggro Sanchez like he was @ 170.

Havent read it but BJ pushes this issue to set up a 3rd fight in a year or so where he gets destroyed again but makes alot of money.

BJ comes from a wealthy family and doesn't need the money. Seems to be grasping at straws and making an attempt to save face IMHO.

Rich people always want more money. Hell everyone wants more money. A 3rd GSP fight will bring in more money than anything available at LW for him right now. His Fight with Sherk had about 500k buys, estimates on the GSP fight were North of a million and maybe as high as 1.3 million buys. A large chunk of a main eventers salary is tied to ppv buys.

Ya know, I think it's really sad that Machida isn't fighting for the title.

Dana said that if Jardine wins next week Machida gets the shot.

Nevada Commission to review the case of GSP and BJ March 17, any shot they give BJ a no contest?

I dont, if you watch the fight in between they(officials) were wiping off GSP's back. What little bit could of come off of Nurses's hand from rubbing his back is very little to none.

case closed

So, your opponent greasing makes you gas faster?

I'm sorry, when you are one of the best jiu-jitsu players in the sport and you can't hold your high guard on someone, BJ has no chance of catching him. Sure he was overpowered, but how can you say he never catches GSP when he's the best in the sport? We don't know if he was going to catch him, and that's the problem.

But the situation was dealt with in the cage when it was spotted. I believe between rd 1 and 2. BJ's camp knew what had happened and knew that GSP had been wiped down its crap imo to acknowledge the problem, agree to go on and then file a complaint and make it as an excuse for not winning.

in the response for St-Pierre's camp they explain that the game plan of GSP was to win the fight on the ground. In their first fight GSP got beat up in the 1st round and managed to win with his ground game in rounds 2 and 3. So again this fight was going to be won by GSP on the ground. Knowing BJ's strength on the ground they practiced avoiding his dangerous rubber guard. His plan was to ground and pound BJ, and he executed perfectly, Bj was overwheled. GSP's skill on the ground was showcased even more by his ability to pass BJ's guard, something that no other fighter had been able to do.

They also talk about why they were rubbing him the way they did, it was for breathing techniques, the hands he rubbed his back with didn't even have vaseline on it, and any amount that made it onto GSP other than on his face was very minimal and didn't have any effect on the fight.

BJ didn't lose becasue of vaseline, he lost because GSP fought a better fight than him. And he wasn't a bit better, he dominated him.

GSP's video did nothing for me. It's a breathing technique, I'm not sure anyone denied that, the fact is he rubbed a substance on his back. Also, who cares what GSPs strategy was? Through the Vaseline, you made it harder for BJ to use his biggest weapon, his jiu-jitsu. GSP probably wins the fight anyway, but guaranteeing a guy like BJ won't catch him if he isn't greased seems silly.

bj is good, but you are stretching things here a bit

I think GSP probably would have won this fight regardless with his gameplan that he was using, but I also don't think we should dismiss that he may have cheated. The breathing thing he does could be something he actually believes helps him, but it would be pretty convenient to cheat and add vaseline while they're doing it. They would have the built-in excuse as to why they were doing it if they were ever caught like in this situation. BJ is also not the first to complain about it. Sherk has made complaints, Hughes has done the same, Mayhem as well.

There's no doubt in my mind the vaseline would have helped GSP in this fight. It wasn't only the fact that BJ couldn't hold his high guard or do any rubber guard stuff, he couldn't control GSP's posturing either. Now, maybe GSP really has evolved into some super fighter that can smash world class BJJ players at their own game, but I find it a tad bit weird that nobody seems to be able to control his posture and hold his head down. Anyone that's ever grappled before knows that sweat makes things hard enough as is, but adding even a tiny bit of vaseline makes just about any guard useless. A light wiping with towels isn't going to remove vaseline either, that stuff is hard to get off.

Also, if you watch the first fight, GSP was able to do nothing in BJ's guard. BJ controlled his head and GSP wasn't able to posture up like he did the 2nd fight. Yeah, it was a couple of years ago, but I find it a bit hard to believe that somebody could evolve that quickly on the ground.

Oh shit I forgot about the WEC tonight.

I don't know if you read GSP's response in the link I posted, but the guy who introduced the breathing technique to GSP has a letter to the commission. He says he noticed that GSP wasn't breathing properly during his fight with Jon Fitch and intervied and taught him the breathing technique for his figth against BJ. it's from the "witchdoctor" and is on page 10. http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blo...ac_response.pdf

Do you think GSP used him as a means to cheat? If he was greasing in other fights as well why would he change his technique? I really don't think he intentionally tried to put vaseline on his back, also any vaseline that was there did significantly alter the outcome of the game. Had he been dry as my grandma's pounanee he would have still whooped his as and passed his guard. Their 1st fight was 3 years ago, GSP has evolved alot since then.

This really sucks. Because when they fight again, GSP will be a HUGE favorite. Sigh.

Did you see anything that would make you bet on BJ?

gsp may be the strongest wrestler in mma right now, bj couldn't control him because he wasn't strong enough, teh high quard may have added an element of danger to bj's game, but it wasn't going to keep gsp from raining elbows

Whether it affected the outcome of the fight is irrelevant. Fact of the matter is his corner got caught putting vaseline on him. It taints his win in my opinion. If you listen to some of his strategy for the fight, you'll hear him talking about trying to gas out BJ's arms by clinching with him, so his hand speed isn't as quick. If he uses strategy like that, I would think he would have a sophisticated way of cheating as well if he were to do it.

Who knows if he has used other greasing methods in the past. Some fighters have been known to bathe in baby oil before the fight, so they become very slick once they start sweating. I don't get why you would say he would have still destroyed him with or without vaseline. It makes a difference in there, even a small little bit makes a difference. It's also not easy to get off and certainly can't be wiped off with just a towel.

Yeah, he is a very good wrestler, but BJ has one of the best guards in MMA. He should have been able to at least neutralize some of what GSP was doing. Instead, he couldn't do anything. GSP was doing the most basic passes, posturing up and raining down shots whenever he wanted. Sure, maybe he is just that dominant, but to think grease couldn't have played a factor is just not being rational.

His win is tainted, but I don't think his character should be tainted. I believe it is possible it was completely unintentional for the corner to touch him with slightly greasy hands, and it's more likely that he didn't have any intentions of cheating.


I re-watched the first fight and BJ was able to control GSP's head when he was in BJ's guard. In the 2nd fight GSP used his arms to posture up and not let BJ control his head. I think it was his plan to not allow him to get that control, I don't think it was his plan to use vaseline to help him.

Regarding the passes, I don't know enough about BJJ to able to tell if they were basic or not, but somewhere in the letter they claim that the passes he used against BJ were advanced techniques. Fighters end up greasy in later rounds of fights yet nobody was ever able to pass BJ's guard like GSP did. I think GSP deserves more credit for his BJJ that you are giving him.

Jor Rogan even commented on the fact they are sweating more and more as the fight progresses. This also makes it easier for GSP to pass BJ's in general regardless of any vaseline factor that didnt occur.

Like I said before if you watch the fight in between rounds the athletic commission was wiping down GSP in between rounds.

Didn't that only happen after round three when they saw him do it every break? And Vaseline mixed with sweat is 1) hard to get off 2) insanely slippery

I'm not saying he's not a legit black belt, but he just got his black belt recently a few months ago. You compare that to someone like BJ who's had his for almost 10 years and was a World Champion in BJJ and it should be no contest who the better grappler is. That's pretty much my point that BJ shut down GSP's entire game the first fight and could do nothing the second fight. Maybe he really is that good now and proper credit would have been given if he were not caught red handed with the vaseline.

They were the same basic passes he was using against Matt Serra as well. GSP is actually kind of one dimensional with what he does. He has a great single leg takedown and uses that Sao Paolo passing to the right side.

Yup, they saw it happen after the third round. BJ looked like he was done after the 2nd Round, so even if it was somehow wiped off, the fight was basically done after the 2nd Round. BJ himself said he was borderline knocked out and didn't know what was going on. He was just fighting off of instincts.

It will be interesting to see what the video reveals during the breaks between the first 2 rounds. If he was wiping him with vaseline in those rounds as well, while doing that breathing technique, I would think that's blatant cheating. More than likely, not much comes of this. Probably a couple suspensions to his corner is about it, unless they really find something with definitive proof that GSP was cheating.

UFC sent out the following press release today:

THE ULTIMATE FIGHTING CHAMPIONSHIP® ANNOUNCES UFC 98: LESNAR vs. MIR 2 For the World Heavyweight Championship

SATURDAY, MAY 23, 2009

Live from the MGM Grand Garden Arena – Tickets on Sale Saturday, March 7 at 10am PT

Las Vegas, NV (USA) – Long considered the most prestigious title in mixed martial arts, the UFC® Heavyweight Championship currently rests in the hands of two men – Champion Brock Lesnar and interim belt holder Frank Mir. On Saturday, May 23rd, at the MGM Grand Garden Arena in Las Vegas, Nevada, Lesnar and Mir will meet to not only determine an Undisputed UFC Heavyweight Champion, but to settle some very personal business they began in this same arena over a year ago.

"Brock Lesnar and Frank Mir put on one of the most intense one round fights I've ever seen at UFC 81," said UFC President Dana White, referring to Mir's submission victory over Lesnar in February of 2008. "But when it was over, both guys saw things very differently. Lesnar blamed his loss on inexperience and being too aggressive, while Mir saw his win as a triumph of his technique, something he says will happen every time they fight. On May 23rd, each fighter has his chance to prove his point, and while a lot has happened for these two since that first fight, I know the rematch is going to be just as intense as the first one, especially considering that the winner walks away as the UFC Heavyweight Champion."

Tickets for UFC 98: LESNAR VS. MIR 2 priced at $800, $600, $400, $250, $125 and $75, not including applicable service charges, go on sale Saturday, March 7 at 10 a.m. at all Las Vegas Ticketmaster locations (select Smith's Food and Drug Centers and Ritmo Latino). Ticket sales are limited to eight (per person. To charge by phone with a major credit card, call Ticketmaster at (800) 745-3000. Tickets also are available for purchase at www.ufc.com, www.mgmgrand.com or www.ticketmaster.com.

UFC® Fight Club™ members will have the opportunity to purchase tickets to this event Thursday, March 5 at 10 a.m. PT via the website ufc.com. A special Internet ticket pre-sale will be available to UFC newsletter subscribers Friday, March 6 starting at 10 a.m. PT. To access this presale, users must register for the UFC newsletter through ufc.com.

UFC 98: LESNAR vs. MIR 2 will be available live on pay-per-view on iN DEMAND, DIRECTV, DISH Network, TVN, Bell ExpressVu, Shaw Communications and Viewer's Choice Canada for a suggested retail price of $44.95 for standard definition or high-definition broadcasts (where available).

A gifted athlete with the size, speed, and power to impose his will on any opponent, 6-3 ½, 265 pound Brock Lesnar (3-1) made an immediate impact in the UFC when he debuted in February of 2008. A four-time All-American, two-time Big Ten Champion, and 2000 NCAA Division I National Champion in wrestling, Lesnar made a name for himself internationally after college as a professional wrestler, but he soon found his calling in mixed martial arts in 2006. After a 69 second win in his pro debut a year later, Lesnar entered the UFC in 2008 and was seconds away from victory against former heavyweight champ before a stoppage in the action for a point deduction allowed Mir to come back and submit the newcomer moments afterwards. But at UFC 87 in August of 2008, Lesnar showed why he was a force to be reckoned with by dominating Heath Herring, and by November 15, the ever improving Minnesotan shocked the world when he TKOd one of the greatest heavyweights of all time, Randy "The Natural" Couture. Now firmly entrenched on the top of the heavyweight division, Lesnar wants to even the score with Mir.

"I'm delighted to have a rematch against Frank Mir," said Lesnar. "I can't wait to get my revenge and finish this fight on the ground the way it should have been finished last time."

Many believe that 29-year old Las Vegan Frank Mir (12-3) was destined for stardom the moment he stepped in the UFC Octagon™, and he lived up to all expectations when he submitted Tim Sylvia in 50 seconds in 2004 to win the UFC Heavyweight Championship. Unfortunately, Mir's career ground to a halt when a serious motorcycle accident later that year forced him to the sidelines for almost two years. His eagerness to return forced him into some spotty performances when he stepped back into the Octagon in 2006, but at UFC 74 in August of 2007, Mir was back in top notch form as he submitted Antoni Hardonk in just 77 seconds. He followed that pivotal win with a come-from-behind victory over Brock Lesnar at UFC 81 in February of 2008, but it wasn't until UFC 92 on December 27, 2008 that Mir came all the way back, as he became the first man to stop the legendary Antonio "Minotauro" Nogueira at UFC 92, en route to regaining the interim portion of the championship he never lost in the Octagon. On May 23rd, the 6-3, 240 pound Mir has the opportunity to once again reign as the undisputed title holder.

"Brock Lesnar has been calling for a rematch with me ever since I beat him the first time," said Mir. "All I can say to Brock is be careful what you wish for because I'm a better, smarter, stronger, and faster fighter than I was the last time. He won't be able to push me around like he's done smaller opponents, and I'm looking forward to becoming undisputed champion again."

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Bobby Lashley to Fight Ken Shamrock
Posted by Dan Plunkett on 03.02.2009

This should be fun...

BloodyElbow.com is reporting that Bobby Lashley will square of against fellow former professional wrestler Ken Shamrock at Roy Jones Jr.'s mixed boxing and MMA event "March Badness." The 45-year-old Shamrock is coming off of his first win in five years, which saw him armbar Ross Clifton on February 13. Lashley won his first MMA bout in December in just 41 seconds, and has not fought since then.

March Badness is scheduled for March 21 at the Pensacola Civic Center in Pensacola, Florida. The card will be broadcast live on pay-per-view. The main event is a boxing bout featuring Roy Jones Jr. as he takes on Omar Sheika in a light-heavyweight bout. Other MMA fights expected for the card are Seth Petruzelli vs. Doug Marshall, and a heavyweight fight between Jeff Monson and Roy Nelson.

here is BJ version of things, video style: http://mmamania.com/2009/02/19/ufc-94-grea...s-on-bjpenncom/

I'm not sure how accurate the timeline for everything is as far as what happened in between rounds. I'm sure they have an actual video of everything that was going on in the corner to get a better idea of everything. Pretty sure that is what the NSAC will be reviewing. Other fighters have accused GSP of being greasy. Some Fighters and trainers have complained about some of Greg Jackson's guys being greasy. Is it a coincidence? I personally don't think so. Where there's smoke there's fire.

This whole thing is becoming a bit silly if you ask me.

I have no clue how much grease was on GSP during the fight. I've watched the ppv as well as tons of clips. I couldn't feel his back, sorry.

But BJ has lost twice now. I honestly believe that GSP is the superior MMA fighter. BJ is letting his pride get the best of him imo.

Lots of rational arguments have been made from both sides.

At the end of the day, I can't see GSP losing the fight.

I wish I could say the same, but I don't know. Maybe the grease did have something to do with it, that's the problem, we don't know. I still think the right action is not let that guy corner for 1-2 years and don't let anyone but a cutman touch a fighter.

couple of things

-bjj and mma are not the same as far as grappling goes, there is so much more that the gi gives that is taken away in a grappling enviornment, especially against a much stronger opponent

-gsp game plan over the past few fights, and you could see it against bj was to fight a safe game, no need to go crazy, just get in a good position and gnp like couture used to do from half guard

-the passes got easier because they started sweating and bj kept getting tired

-i really don't think that bj would have been able to hold gsp with crackhead control for too long anyways, he is just too strong

All valid points. But the 'I don't think' is still there, isn't it? That's the problem.

bj's realy gift in bjj is his flexibility, not his strength, against a no-gi opponent he doesn't have the strength to deal with someone who can recognize the dangers and play "small ball" mma so to speak, gsp chipped away at bj and while he could have tried for better positions he knew that opened up risks that he didn't need to take

take an equally as talented, but stronger bjj player like marcelo who excels on both gi and no gi, technical with a grip like a boa

in a five round fight, which i'm sure that gsp was prepared for, bj gets weaker and more beat up by the round and the chance of bj catching gsp in a sub gets less and less

bj is 100 x better than i ever will be, but his gift has limits unless he works hard enough, which i don't think he does to take gsp at welterweight

BJ got his guard passed 30 seconds after getting taken down in the 2nd Round. I highly doubt he was tired at that point, at least he didn't look it.

Is GSP really that much stronger than Matt Hughes? I don't know about that, but BJ controlled Hughes in his guard before hurting his rib. BJ has great technique to go along with his flexibility. Everything he does on the ground is very fundamentally sound, he doesn't do anything flashy.

Really though, GSP did most of his damage inside BJ's guard rather than the better positions. He couldn't get much leverage on his shots in side control or half guard, but he was raining down blows while he was in BJ's open guard.

I know what you're saying in GSP's approach on the ground and that is why I think he likely wins the fight anyways, but the vaseline being thrown in the equation creates a what if scenario to this fight.

if you look at gsp's guard pass over the past few fights you would see how strong he is, yes, he is much stronger than hughes in that respect, look at how he manhandled them in their fight

gsp by posturing up, having a very strong base and being able to open the guard with a hand push and then swing the leg up high and over is very hard to deal with, i can't see gsp sitting in a high guard or crackhead against bj, he just won't let the position happen and bj isn't strong enough to hold him in it, maybe if bj played rubber guard, but still i think gasp is strong enough to just pick bj up in that position and break it, he is very hard to get head control on now

If he really is that strong and that good technically, he's basically an unbeatable fighter. If someone like BJ can't control him in his guard, what chance does anyone else have? Like I said before, maybe he is just that good and I would have given him that praise if he had not gotten caught with the vaseline. But, the fact of the matter is it's not the first time that he's been accused of it. It's not the first time his camp has been accused of it and BJ's corner warned the commission about it before hand. Dana himself has said he thinks his corner did it on purpose, why would Dana say that if he didn't believe it to be true?

Well in all fairness.........he can have the best bjj defense in the world, and he won't be an unbeatable fighter. If his chin is suspect, which I think it is, that presents another problem. However, because his wrestling is the best in MMA right now........if he did have the best bjj defense as well as the best top game, he would be "almost" impossible to beat.

So, I can see you guys are really fired up about the Faber/Brown rematch and thoroughly enjoyed the WEC card on Sunday and really think that Aldo is a big time up and comer? Yeah, me too.