Keep in mind though they were allowed to juice in Japan. Not accusing Rua or anyone else for that matter, but a lot of other people have.

Anyone else get in on this action?

I was not impressed with Melendez's last few and the line was ridiculously good.

Mixed Martial Arts (Game) Moneyline
(301) Josh Thomson +350 Fri@10:00p
Outcome:Win

Melendez was -500 and got worked in every round
Josh Thomson def. Gilbert Melendez via unanimous decision (50-45, 50-45, 50-45).

it's hard to say. what was known going into that fight is that forrest probably had a good 10-13 lbs on Rua since Rua doesn't really cut and Rua wasn't able to train the whole time for the fight. I'm not saying that Rua still would've beaten forrest if he was at full health, but he was at a disadvantage going into that fight. Not a lot of PRIDE fighters cut that much to make their weights. Rua probably would be best at 185

UFC 86 is less than a week away. Here are the odds.......

CompetitorOdds Middleweights- Ultimate Fighting Championships 86-Mandalay Bay Events Center, Nevada - Sat 5th Jul 08 Both must fight for action. Singles Only. Max $500
Patrick Cote
-105

Ricardo Almeida
-125


Lightweights- Ultimate Fighting Championships 86-Mandalay Bay Events Center, Nevada - Sat 5th Jul 08 Both must fight for action. Singles Only. Max $500
Joe Stevenson
-220

Gleison Tibau
+180


Welterweights- Ultimate Fighting Championships 86-Mandalay Bay Events Center, Nevada - Sat 5th Jul 08 Both must fight for action. Singles Only. Max $500
Josh Koscheck
-315

Chris Lytle
+240


Lightweights- Ultimate Fighting Championships 86-Mandalay Bay Events Center, Nevada - Sat 5th Jul 08 Both must fight for action. Singles Only. Max $500
Jorge Gurgel
EVEN

Cole Miller
-130


Heavyweights Ultimate Fighting Championship 86 - Mandalay Bay Events Center, Las Vegas, Nevada Both must fight for action. Singles Only. Max $500
Gabriel Gonzaga
-600

Justin McCully
+400


UFC 86 - Light Heavyweight Championship - Mandalay Bay Events Center, Nevada - Saturday 5th July (10pm EST) Both must fight for action. Singles Only. Max $500
Quinton Jackson
-260

Forrest Griffin
+200


Feel free to share your thoughts and opinions.

^^ My picks. Not that I bet them.

Nothing really jumps out at me on this card. Almeida is a good bet, he's probably going to sub Cote in the first. I want Forrest to win but don't really see how he can.

Nothing really worth betting on this card imo. If I was to put a lot of money on one thing, it would probably be Stevenson.

I think Cote will beat Almeida. Almeida looked good in his first fight back against a chump, but I think Cote will be too much for him right now. It will be Cote circling and staying off the ground, grinding out a boring decision. Gurgel might be a good bet, but sometimes it seems the guy doesn't show up. Miller doesn't impress me at all though.

the almeida line seems the only one worth betting IMO. what may not be a bad idea is to get some money on Forrest right now and then if the line gets closer put money down on Rampage to abritrage

I got Almeida when he was even money. Almeida hadn't fought in four years and then took on a guy who was on 3 days notice so there are a lot of questions surrounding him. Cote is one tough SOB, but I think Almeida will do enough on his feet to be able to transition to the ground game. Cote is in big trouble when it goes down. I am surprised this line has moved this much to the unknown guy's side.

I don't think the Forrest line will get any better than -200. Even if it moves I don't see a significant amount of money going his way to make an arbitrage possible.

I didn't work the numbers, but arbitraging Performify's picks could be quite possible given the movement after he posted on the last event.

http://sports.espn.go.com/extra/mma/news/story?id=3466495


I'll bet Dana White loves this article. Any moderate fans on the fence about this purchase just got pushed over to the non-buy side.

I want to get it and PROBABLY will, but damn, I have no idea who to pull for. Both guys in the main event are highly likeable. You need to be a harcore fan to recognize anyone on the undercard. I've said it since day 1, the UFC is riding a slipperly slope, not creating a bigger fan base by making bigger cards. Oh well, what do I know?

What's the opposite of "totally agree with you"?

Going with the fact you only recognize a few people per card, UFC would be foolish to blow their wad 6 times per year to try to build a fan base. IMO, they are doing a fantastic job of building stars and building a wider base of competitive fighters. Also, it's the sport, not the fighters, that will bring the long term die hard fans. The anticipation of potential matchups and the churning of the B+ level fightes to see who can emerge as the next St Pierre is thrilling to me. I don't want a series of Ultimate Ultimates to decide once and for all. Altough, I would pay a pretty penny to see another 8 man tourney, One time Dana!

what am I saying: Give me 12 PPV a year, 4 awesome, 6 solid, 2 meh. And let me see 10 title fights at least. Introduce some new fighters, so we can purge the journeymen and perpetual C fighters as needed. Keep me wanting more

HDNet not rushing into MMA

Posted: Tuesday July 01, 2008 08:56AM ET

With billionaire entrepreneur Mark Cuban writing the checks, HDNet Fights has the financial wherewithal to be a formidable challenger to the UFC's mixed-martial-arts supremacy. However, nine months after its launch, HDNet Fights has chosen to be more of a programming brand than a fight promotion. The high-definition HDNet channel created by Cuban in September 2001 has become an MMA programming juggernaut, carrying promotions ranging from Strikeforce to DREAM, along with several regional shows. "HDNet is the home of MMA, with more live events than any other network in the world," HDNet Fights CEO Andrew Simon tells MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com). "In the month of June alone, we had four live events and four new episodes of 'Inside MMA.' We are bringing the best MMA organizations together from around the globe on HDNet. We are branding under the HDNet Fights banner and continue to make HDNet a must-have channel for MMA fans." With recent agreements to carry live events for both Strikeforce and Adrenaline MMA, HDNet is making significant investments in the sport as a means of growing its audience. While Simon declined to say how much revenue is generated by these deals, they are part of a broader strategy to build the HDNet Fights brand

I agree, to a degree, but the cards with all the buzz lately are the ones with at least three mid to high profile fights. I just think that they could do a little better job making bigger cards instead of spreading the cards thinner than a homeless guy's peanut butter. Or something, I'm not good with metaphores and similies.

To get the average schmo to watch this stuff, and especially to pay for it, you need some super cards. Once they are in, hopefully they stick. That's my point.

Well, that's not exactly true. The success of the UFC in the past few years has been mostly from the Ultimate Fighter. They've managed to get average Joe to get hooked on average fighter. They seem to have figured out a good formula of putting on at least two really good fights, filled with a bunch of guys that people have seen on TV, and judging on the success they've had since the show started, it will probably continue for quite some time.

I sort of agree, to a degree.

I'd like to see them once a year have some sort of larger than normal PPV (think wrestlemania for MMA) where all the title belts are on the line and maybe a couple of small 4/8 man tournaments to decide number one contenders for a future PPV.

I don't think. Because you would either have to have a few months off before/after these, or give really shitty cards the month/two before and after. I don't think the jump for one mega show would make up for the down months before and after. Although I would also love to see the Commisions re institute the one night tournament.



Reading what you've guys have said, I think it's dawned on me how huge Forrest winning Saturday would be for the UFC. I knew it'd be something good for them, but that Ultimate Fighter original buzz Forrest is the kind of guy that with the belt could do all the talk shows etc., seems to be something potentially monstrous for the UFC.

Matt Hammil vs. Rich Franklin at 88
and Jesse Taylor vs. CB Dollaway on July 19th

niiice

I imagine it's LHW ?

Yeah, http://mmajunkie.com/news/4702/rich-frankl...-for-ufc-88.mma

When I say supercard, I don't mean 4 huge fights with 8 huge fighters going at it, but I mean at least 3 big names fighting on one card. Look at this card coming up, Big main event, but the second fight is a guy that was retired vs a guy that nearly got cut loose for losing his first 3 (I think, Cote) UFC fights. Don't get me wrong, I want to watch that fight because I love watching high level jujitsu guys (almeida). I watched the hype show on Spike and have seen all the commercials, and they are only hyping two of the fights. I couldn't tell you who else is on the card. Is Joe "Daddy" Stephenson on this one? Just my .02

I'm just voicing my opinion as a new fan. TUF isn't a great vehicle, at least not the only season I've watched, which was this season. Some of the shows were just fight shows, then when they had time to burn, the half assed an attempt at getting the viewer to connect with a fighter, a la Jesse Taylor and his spawn. The show was just weak this year. AGain, I have no point of reference, because its the only season I've seen.

hypothetical:

UFC PPV: typical card
same time as
Superbowl

Which do you watch first?

MMA. And not close for me.

Not really. The month before you could have the tournament prelim fights on a UFC fight night and the following month could be a TUF finale card. Wrap two free events around a big PPV and it would help pull casual fans in.

And Superbowl > UFC

I'd record the UFC event and watch it later.

chris, they do do a supercard like that once or twice a year. Obviously you can't have every card be stacked, but they've had big cards like that a good amount of the time

TUF is a great vehicle, your sample size is just very small. this was a good season though and was better then last season as it did work in getting personalities over, creating rivalries, and providing good fights. They probably could've added an episode or two to space out some of the hurriedness of some of the shows in having two fights on a episode. I would definitely reccomend netflixing some past seasons of TUF, especially the first season

omg, Superbowl.

I think this season was probably the worst for somebody just starting to watch it, but close to the best for somebody already in it. I know when I first started watching it, getting to know the fighters' personalities was what really drew me in, but now I want to see their skills as much as possible, and it seems like the show kinda progressed like that too. I started watching at season three, for what its worth, and I still have yet to see anything from seasons one and two.


also, I'd have to go with superbowl too, although it would depend on the teams for it vs. fighters in the card really.

Even if it was like, the Texans vs Titans i'd still easily go Superbowl. And i'd be either hosting or attending a party for it as per usual. The UFC fights can easily be watched the next day without hearing any results, but the Superbowl, oh you gotta watch that live.

And agreed on TUF - I used to like watching the "extras" more - but when they had "2 fight shows" I was always a little more excited and enjoyed it more. A little background and personality is good - but it's really about the fight. Either way is good TV though afaic.

hell to be honest on tuf, I wish it were 30 episodes and 3 hours long a piece. I want more fights, more training, more fighters personalities... I could go on and on. just love the show.


on the super bowl vs UFC thing though, its all dependent really on what you value I guess. I like football ok, but I'd say Im much more into mma. I know everybody's different, and I'd imagine most people would choose the super bowl since its the biggest sporting event, but like I said it really all depends on the teams and the fighters. i don't even know where I'm going with this. I'm just repeating myself. let me stop.

it's funny how the hardcore fans think I'm out of line asking for more stacked card. The UFC has a fair amount of name fighters and plenty of up and comers. Is having an event every other month and stacking it a little deeper that outrageous? Five fights make the PPV, make at least three of em with bigger names, preferrably four. As the comsumer, you should demand more for your entertainment dollar instead of griping about a weak PPV after you spend the $60.

Just my thoughts, but go ahead sheep, bahhh

I just think that they are spreading a little thin. Once a month is very WWE. Build some anticipation, hype some fights, develop a card. I'm probably wrong, but it's what I'd like to see.

I'm still probably gonna buy or go where this PPV is playing, and I'm a fan of the product

It seems like the UFC is providing enough top tier fighters that they COULD stack a lot of cards, but maybe many of those top guys don't want to fight that often, or injuries get in the way, or the UFC wants to give more time to the "unsuperstars" and see if a star can be born.

Regardless, the more stacked the better, obv. But I think most people believe that if they superstacked some cards, the other ones before/after would be even worse than the average card we are used to now. So they really have to find a balance.

you aren't out of line, but you aren't seeing the trees through teh forrest either. The fact is, UFC already does do stacked cards. The Saturday before the Superbowl is a Show that they aim something big for, the final show of the year is one that they aim 2 or 3 big fights for, and then they usually do a big card somewhere from may-august

I just noticed Corey Hill is on the undercard Saturday.

Isn't he the really raw kid on either Season 5 or 6 of TUF? Never fought before lots of attitude, but a real good natured kid, always a smile. All the experts were blown away by his raw ability and said he could be a star.

I like him. Just noticed on Sherdog that he's fought twice as a pro, 2-0.

Ron (or Chris?),

I also think it has a lot to do with you not being familar with fighters so sense the card is weaker than it is.
For example, aren't you looking forward to seeing Tyson Griffn fight?
Or Lytle vs Kos?

***********************

I used the Superbowl vs UFC as a gauge to indicate how pumped I get for these. I'll watch 4 NFL football games a week and always watch all the playoffs, obv, but it's not with the same easgerness I feel all week long for the UFC. I recall when a friend at work, back in my restaurant days, told me he had taped? UFC2 - IIR it was out before UFC-The Begining. I love all of it. I wish they would't stand the fights up too quick; but it's a pretty good balance. Anyway, I wasn't thinking about finding out the results; more just about which event do you look forward to watching more.

Ron, what is your list of fighters who you would consider stacked? The same guys can't fight every two months.

On paper I have Saturday's card at least an 8 out of 10. If you aren't excited for that Tyson Griffin/Marcus Aurelio fight you are simply not an MMA fan. Kos/Lytle should be a great fight. Stevenson/Tibau is going to be a war. Cote is someone who could end it with one punch and Almeida, although not well known because he has been inactive, has some of the best BBJ around. The guys got wins over Chonan, Marquardt, both Kazuo and Yuki Sasaki, Minowa, and a solid DQ loss to Lindland. Most of them back in their hayday too. Dood can just plain fight. Top that off with a title fight....even though I don't think Forrest deserves it. Those are just the fights we are guaranteed to see.

I agree that some cards are weaker than others, but overall they put on some solid shows. Eight man one night tourney ONE time NASC.

You simply can't expect these guys to fight that often. Yes, it is what they do for a living, but it takes such a toll on your body. The training is so much worse than the fight. A good camp lasts an absolute minimum of 8 weeks and should be around 10-12 weeks. If training year round that is fighting 4 times a year while staying injury free. Simply not possible. Sure, some guys are willing to do it, but you won't ever see the guys making 6 figures pushing it that hard.

Lebowski:

SuperBowl or UFC ?

im pretty sure the fighters wld love to fight 2 times a month more pay cheques less training and you stay in the zone longer .

but its the comissioners fault why we dont see alot of stacked cards . i think its every 3 months your allowed to figt where it used to be your choice .

and they also wont pass a k1 stlye tourny in MMA format like they used too which really sux imo and also same goes for the open weight class which was my favorite ,

MMA is to regulated now a days pretty soon its gna be like boxing where your only allowed 1 12 round fight per year (might be 6 mnths not 100%)

Yeah Hackney vs Akibono was classic

I'm not sure if you are stoned or sarcastic; but MMA with rules <> boxing.

I will take any UFC event over the superbowl, but that's just me.

As far as cards go, I'm not "thrilled" about this card. In fact I'm not even going to Vegas to see it this time. Primarily because it is ridiculously hot out there, I couldn't get good seats, busy time to travel, etc, etc, etc.

Having said that, I think there should be some great fights. Kos vs Lytle. Griffin vs Aurellio. Stevens vs Tibau. Cote vs Almeida. And Griffin vs Rampage. Tons of talent in there.

These cards are much more exciting than heavyweight cards. Obv that is a generalization, but usually hw cards are slow and fairly boring. Especially when Tim Sylvia was involved.

Personally I would rather watch two relative newcomers, or newcomers to the ufc period vs a fight like kimbo vs tank.

I've said before, but I am a hardcore fan, and would order virtually any UFC.

I'm not sure what people want. If a card doesn't interest you, don't buy it.

Just because someone is popular in the UFC does not mean they will be the most exciting to watch..........

I'm familiar with a fair amount of fighters. As I've said, I'm relatively new to the sport, but I do read a ton of material, I watch most every episode of UFC Unleashed on Spike to catch up on old fights and fighters I don't know about.

I'm also not stupid, I know fighters can't fight every month, and I wasn't implying that. If anyone actually read what I wrote, I said a card every other month would be really stacked and it would become more of an event, as opposed to be a month thing that became mundaine.

FOR EVERYONE THAT WASN'T PAYING ATTENTION, I AM A FAN, DO BUY A FAIR SHARE OF THE CARDS AND LIKE THE SPORT MORE EVERY DAY.

But I just think sometimes, they spread a little thin. That's all.

As far as Tyson Griffin fight, I've seen two of his fights, I think. A loss to Frankie Edgar and a quick win. He doesn't pitch a tent in my pants. Almeida does. As I wrote in another post, I love high level BJJ fighters. Guys that just bang don't really wet my MMA whistle as much. Sure, I like a knockout as much as the next guy, but I LOVE a slick armbar or a triangle out of thin air. That's exciting.

Not a huge football fan. I don't think I even watched the last Superbowl with the Pats going for the undefeated season.

this is not true. They issue a lot of 30,45,90 day suspensions, but fighters can go get checked out by a doc right away and typically be cleared to fight anytime.




Wow, are you saying you weren't impressed with both guys in that Griffin/Edgar fight? I thought that was one of the best fights of the year. Yeah, Griffin might not have sick straight forward BJJ, but he is extremely slick on the ground. If Aurelio can't submit him I don't think anyone besides BJ would be capable of it.

So I just placed 50 on Serena and 50 on Federer.
If any of you want to make some good money I suggest Venus and Nadal.


Unless I see something I really like at the weigh-ins tonight here are my bets for Sat
30 on Almeida...at even though..he's -145 now...obv won't matter if he doesn't win
20 on Gurgel
20 on Aurelio
10 on Buckholz....i'm 6'4", 200 and fairly thin/solid....6'4" and 155 is just stupid sick...Hill has got to lose sooner or later..hopefully soon
5 on McCully...this is the only bet I made after reading Perfomify's column and agree with everything he said on this one. As everyone here just discussed, this is a time I think betting the underdog just because he is such a huge underdog is wise. I don't expect him to win this fight even 50% of the time, but +400 is just too big to pass up on this one. I am SOO confident I put 5 on it .

Obv like the betting dogs on this card.

Nah, I was saying that Griffin was solid, but I was real impressed with Edgar in that fight. It was a great fight.

Being a new fan, one of the better fights I've seen was Torres vs Japanese dude in that WEC fight on June 1st.

I also have a man crush on Frank Mir.

Oh yeah...I forgot I put 20 on the Rampage/Forrest bell ringing for the start of round 3....at even money on that one.


Yeah..I totally see that Frank Mir crush



j/k...I actually like Mir. I kind of wish he would come do UFC with Rogan, but I enjoy the stupid shit Goldy says way too much to ask for his resignation.



BTW...I know you set up your account in his hayday, but the guy that owns www.ronmexico.com is a close friend of mine and I can get it for you at a very good price.

so stoked he came back and leaped out of my seat when he submitted Brock.
See his fight against Pete Williams?
Hope he's ready for Nog.

MMA fighters with other jobs

Good read from Sports Illustrated

Like you wouldn't hit it. Puhlease. But yeah, like I've mentioned, standing and banging doesn't do it for me, slick submissions do, and he's good. Also, I watched a fair amount of UFC and his color commentary is solid.

as far as the Ron Mexico thing, when I set up my account, I was going for somewhat of an inside joke. I'm not looking to build a website. Thanks though. Besides, I just love herpes

And if they brought in Mir, it's Rogan who would have to go. Goldberg is a play by play guy and Rogan and Mir are analysts. Rogan disappoints me during his broadcasts. He's supposed to be a comedian, but he never, ever seems to crack a joke, even when it's an obvious one. I get that he's serious about the sport and his commentary, but he could be a little more funny during the broadcast. Then again, I've never found his comedy to be hilarious in the first place.


I didn't get that card, but yeah, that was kina awesome. I didn't see his Pete Williams fight. I've seen him lose a couple of times after his accident.

If you are that big of a Frank Mir fan you need to go here: Frank Mir and watch the rest of his fights. If you like slick subs he was 10x better before the accident. He actually came into his fights in shape.

As far as play by play and analyzing....I haven't heard another sport where the play by play guy is as completely clueless about the sport as a whole as Goldy is. He's def gotten better, but still says the dumbest shit.

Interesting in that a number of those guys are in careers that require quite a bit of brain power (doctor, attorney, engineering).

I admit it. I always get suckered by the UFC PPV hype. WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! 2 minutes!

Wow the scores on that final match seemed way off to me.

I had Rampage winning 1, 3, & 4 and Griffon winning 2 (10-8) & 5.

Looked like a draw to me.

HAHAHAHAHA FUCK ALL YALL MOTHAFUCKAAAAAASSSSS

Wow those score are ridiculous. Not at all how I saw it and outside of the judges I've yet to find anyone who had it anywhere near that.