I honestly believe that if DB beats Amir in the semis, Jesse does not get kicked off the show. IMO the boot was kinda weak. When you got guys like Melvin Guillard who keep getting fights, it puts what Jesse did into perspective. Do you seriously think if Chuck was to get pulled over for DUI, which is long overdue if he drives, and pulls the "do you know who i am" to the cop that Dana kicks him out of the UFC? Dana is a hypocrite just like everyone else.

Dana wanted this show to be the CB coming out party. In the end he found a way to make that happen.

FWIW, Jesse might not even be able to count the numbers up to his IQ and has a serious drinking problem, but I still think it was kind of weak. Shit, it even seemed they were trying to prove something by running a commercial that said "See more of Jesse "terrorizing" the house on ufc.com" while showing Jesse doing stupid human tricks. Why would you do that?

For ****'s sake, it was a Palace casino! There were what, probably 10 people that saw it? If Dana doesn't make it a big deal NO ONE would have heard about it. JC, you were living in Vegas at the time....I'm sure it made front page news and headline stories right? Right?

Sit the kid down, show him the video, talk some sense into him, and then give him the "this is your last shot" speech and put him into AA. Don't **** over a kids life like that when no one would have heard about it if you didn't make a big deal about it.

I couldn't disagree with you more. If Chuck gets pulled over for a DUI and pulls the dick card while its still a bonehead thing to do it's a world of difference to what Jesse did. A guy like Chuck has earned the right to a second chance where Jesse hasn't imo. I suspect Jesse will get one down the line but I agree with Dana's view on if he's this kind of a moron now what would he be like if he were to win the contract.

Jesse needs to go home and sit on this for a while and feel like an absolute failure to get it through his skull before he's given the chance again. Regardless of whether or not anyone would've known about it is this the kind of guy you would want to put in a situation to represent your company?

Intersting outcome I guess.

Jesse was just an idiot imo. Having said that, he had a lot of natural ability. But he was a ridiculously boring fighter to watch. Dana said at the beginning of the season that he was impressed with all of the fights except for the one wrestler who just kind of laid on the guy to get a win. If Jesse did go up against Amir, he would have won by doing that alone. Amir's takedown defense isn't good enough yet to stop it. And his ground game is not not on the level to pull of a submission from a very strong wrestler. Jesse's behavior was ideal for Dana. It gave him the perfect excuse to not have him on the finale. The fight would have been stale, and I'm sure that Dana knew that. From a business perspective, it makes a lot of sense. In truth, I don't agree with what Jesse did, and I think his actions are immature to say the least. He is not ready mentally to go into the UFC. There is a lot more than fighting when you get involved in an organization like that. But I'm sure Dana could have looked the other way if Jesse was a more dynamic fighter. Or was able to put on a better show. Maybe.

CB doesn't impress me all that much. I don't think he has a lot of heart, and I think he has a pretty weak chin. But he obviously has trained for awhile and gets a lot of takedowns. This isn't good for Amir. I was surprised that Amir managed to get that armbar. It happened so fast, I didn't even know that it happened.

I really want Amir to win this fight. And I'm sure that Dana will award both of them contracts if Amir loses. But now I don't know who to bet on. It would be great if I knew who Amir was training with right now. Last time I made the "genius" move of betting on Tommy Spears figuring that he would train with Matt Hughes, only to find out that he was helping out on the farm. Training after the show is very important when it comes time for the big fight.

I was really underwhelmed by CB in his last match. The post show training is super key if I remember right after TUF 1 Forrest spent time at more than one well known camp while Bonner was pretty adament about sticking with who he had come up with and only them. While Bonner performed well in that match I think it speaks volumes about the difference in direction their careers took.

I could be completely off base but I get the impression that Amir is much more dedicated to constantly improving while CB comes off like he believes he's already "there"

As usual, the lines are evening out. Any thoughts? Changes in opinion? (different site btw)


Sat 6/21 Spencer Fisher vs Jeremy Stephens
06:00 PM 305 Spencer Fisher -181
306 Jeremy Stephens +171
UFC Finals - The Pearl, Nevada: Middleweights
Sat 6/21 Evan Tanner vs Kendall Grove
09:00 PM 301 Evan Tanner -176
302 Kendall Grove +166
Sat 6/21 Marvin Eastman vs Drew McFedries
06:00 PM 309 Marvin Eastman +121
310 Drew McFedries -131
Sat 6/21 Jeremy Horn vs Dean Lister
06:00 PM 311 Jeremy Horn -110
312 Dean Lister +100
UFC Finals - The Pearl, Nevada: Welterweights
Sat 6/21 Diego Sanchez vs Luigi Fioravanti
06:00 PM 303 Diego Sanchez -451
304 Luigi Fioravanti +351
Sat 6/21 Josh Burkman vs Dustin Hazelett
06:00 PM 307 Josh Burkman -200
308 Dustin Hazelett +180

No, instead let's give a guy ANOTHER chance who is known to have instigated a fight with another UFC fighter outside of the octagon, publicly accused another fighter of using HGH without any basis whatsoever, tested positive for cocaine, went on a profanity laced tirade inside the octagon after getting his ass kicked, and then publicly stating he would be looking for said fighter out in the real world. Again, this is KNOWN stuff. What Jesse did would never have been known outside of the few people who witnessed it. Pot, meet kettle.

All Dana had to do was talk to the guy and tell him he ****ed up and better never ever step out of line again. Hell, watch the surveillance video again. Who's walking right beside Jesse? DB of course. I have a hard time believing DB didn't get even a little bit out of line that night. Way to look out for your bud DB.



Without question Dana would have looked the other way. I don't think Dana was too impressed with the kids IQ either...for good reason.



I don't recall in the entire TUF series ever seeing a "fight off". The guy that lost to the guy who was kicked out or hurt always got the nod for the next round. Why all of a sudden give DB another chance when Amir has already beaten him? Makes no sense. Oh wait...

who are you talking about here?

He's being given yet another shot on the Rampage/Forrest card.

Who's DB??

DB...CB....i was only one letter off.

As far as i'm concerned, Amir already is the ultimate fighter. And you know that regardless of the outcome of the next fight, both will be seen in the UFC again anyway.

I wouldn't be surprised if Jesse got another chance either. Maybe he will turn things around now and Dana will give him a fight or 2. He made bad decisions, but he can fight. Dana did say "call me in a few months" at the end. How long ago was that already since it was filmed?

i actually read about this on yahoo missed the show but it said this happend a few weeks ago and theytaped it into the show.
if im mistaken my bad .

According to the show, it happened days after they let them out of the house, which was months ago.

It was quite awhile after the Amir/CB fight that the CB/Tim fight happened. that nasty gash they showed getting sewn under Amir's eye was no longer visible at ringside. In the show they said 3 weeks later but that doesnt sound right to me.

Yeah, I agree the CB/Tim fight was probably multiple weeks after the show "ended", but the Jesse flipout was supposedly only a few nights after everybody moved out of TUF house. Also, I find it hard to believe that they flew CB and Tim out to Vegas without them knowing they would be fighting. Fake surprise reacton to the news = Tv drama, I guess.

I could not agree more.

Is there a line for the Amir/CB finnalle?

Amir +130
CB -160

jesus man, amir just doesn't get any respect does he? I think if he actually went and got the right training after the show and learned some more stuff then he is actually a favorite. just from watching the two, it looked to me like amir had far fewer non-fixable holes in his game than cb did. a weak chin ain't something you can fix in a weight room.

I love Amir as a fighter and REALLY hope he wins over the super cocky CB, but that being said, Amir was being beaten on the score cards in their 1st fight before he pulled off a last minute armbar. That had to be taken into account in the setting of the lines.......but GO AMIR!!!!!

I don't think Tim is getting enough respect for almost beating CB in the third semi-final. Everyone agreed, it appeared, that CB won round 2 and Tim won round three. But I honestly thought Tim did enough to win Round one, with more consistent offence. Regardless, that was two fights in a row that CB was beaten/almost beaten.

I think it would suck if CB won tonight. He doesnt do anything for me as a fight fan either style wise or perrsonality wise. Amir on the other hand is exciting to watch with all the wild flying knees and the abuse he can take and also seems like a cool dude. Love to see Amir by 1st round KO.

I think Riddle/Rivera line is a little off. Rivera is an expirienced fighter where its now or never. Riddle is just starting out and has all the time in the world. i think Rivera grinds out a win here. The odds may be influenced by that highlight reel jawbreaker.

To tell you the truth I dont really give a shit who wins between Tanner/Grove. Pretty weak main event imo.

Amir is a funny fcker. The cut to his interviews almost always make me laugh.

I think CB beating him would be bad for the show. I always thought Tim was doing enough to win. CB tried the stand up war, which was even, but when he got tired, which was often, he just did a takedown and sat in the guard. He did virtually no damage from the top.

Oh well, them's the breaks. Tim had his shot and maybe should've done more, fought like it was his life. Sometimes, it pains me to watch these guys that are down by two rounds going into the third, and don't let it all hang out. Now, I've never been knocked out and I can't remember ever being punched in the face, but I'm not a fighter. Poiint is, I think getting submitted or knocked out is better than doing nothing and taking a defeat. Charge in, throw haymakers, go for a nutty submission, something. (oh, I got kneed in the head by a running back and got a concussion, so that's like being punched, right? RIGHT?)

yeah I really enjoy watching amir, and like I've said before in here, he seems to have a natural ability to "see" openings while on the ground, and if he trains right and learns more stuff, he could be really good. also, hometown boy, gotta root for him on that alone. I also think it would really, really suck to lose the ultimate fighter to a guy you already beat to get to the finals. if that happens, dana DAMN well better give amir a contract too.


and agree about the tanner/grove fight too. I saw that one when it came out and was like "huh?". thats weak even for a spike show.

I think it's pretty safe to say that Amir's locked in for a contract unless he just looks absolutely terrible tonight. In Dana's interviews on the last few TUF, he seemed to really like the kid and he obv. already beat CB once.

Are you confusing Richmond, CA with Richmond, VA? Amir's from VA. Or is there a Sausalito, VA?

Agree about Amir getting a contract. He is a lock win or lose.

I have to guess the 185lb division is still kinda weak right now so they are trying to resurrect Tanner because he still has a name in the sport. If I had to guess I would say they gave him 1/2 of Team Dagger because of his close ties with Tito and the fact that if he loses this fight he is out of the UFC. Nothing Dana would like more than to give one of Tito's boys the boot.

Sal is from Virginia, so is Amir.

if we're going with that premise, I currently work about 10 minutes from American Top Team's HQ in Coconut Creek, FL

amir has a very sloppy stand up but hes got awsome knees/kicks and CB is just a boring person to watch fight periode.

hope amir wins tonight and gets to fight the retard guy who was booted in the future .

he is not really retarded, he just looks and acts like he is. i

So I wonder if Jesse is watching or if he pukes everytime he looks at the screen?

That looked like a tap to me. Looked like he went to tap and tapped once then decided not to tap. By then it was too late. Nice job Amir.

That looked like a tap too me.

Me too

So happy he won. Bring on GSP . kidding aside really looking forward to see him progress and maybe someday headline a championship ppv.

Meh, pretty bad ME. Tanner is in slow motion and Grove has no killer instinct. This fight does nothing, Grove is still 3-4 impressive wins away from a shot.

Sanchez was the most impressive tonight.

A C- card tonight but seeing Anderson for free makes up for it.


edit. LOL did a judge actually give Tanner the decisiot

I thought it was an ok card. It wasn't the most exciting card, but that was because none of the matches were really mismatches. I was correct on the fights that I really liked such as McFedries, Hazelett, Fisher and Lister, but got a few wrong as well that I wasn't as sure of. I felt CB would win and it was disappointing to see him get caught in the same submission that is not very hard to avoid. He got caught out of lazyness more than anything else. I think CB was going to get his arm snapped or have to tap anyways, because the arm bar was in deep, but the tap seemed like one of those in training type taps. He tapped out of instinct rather than trying to fight out of it.

I also thought Tanner would pull off the win, but I would have rather avoided betting on a fight like this where each fighter is either very good or very bad. Grove looked like a different fighter tonight. He used his range very well and I was surprised how effective he was in the clinch. I was thinking Tanner would catch Grove pulling straight back in the clinch, but Grove was using his angles well and mixing up his strikes very well too.

I definitely agree that a true ground expert would find the holes in Silva's game. Lutter was doing fairly well, but his notorious gassing out killed him, and I don't consider marquardt a true ground game guy as he's more of a lay and pray type guy

I've always been a fan of Almeida, so I'd love to see him and Silva get into a good fight





IMO, Tim had the opportunity to push the fight better and just didn't. It was a really good fight, but CB opened himself up and I just kept on thinking: c'mon tim go for it, finish this punk. Sadly Tim didn't go for it the way that CB was opening himself up to.

I forget who said it, but I fully agree that Tim just hasn't figure out how to utlize his BlackBelt in full on MMA compeition as he seems to like to go to the ground, but yet not take advantage of it. It could be a case of not having a Gi really effecting him



yea, CB's a punk for claiming it wasn't. Amir had him deep and that was a clear tap. I'm glad amir won





Grove went for it, I don't know what fight you saw. Tanner just has a strong chin/head as grove had him in some bad spots that would KO a lot of normal fighters

Watching the Dream bracket on HDNET, wooooow Ralek Gracie is going to be really really good.

Just heard CB's interview and he admits to beginning to tap and then realizing that he could try and fight it off, but at that point it was already too late. I think his reaction was just a combination of the frustration of losing again and the shock of getting caught in the same arm bar as before. He does own up to losing the fight though, so at least ithat's good to hear.

Totally unrelated-the guy Ralek gets to tap immediately trys to mount Ralek after he taps. Twice in one day, how ridic.

LOL really? His stand-up was pathetic, it was circa 1993 back to the Royce Gracie days, even had the stomp which was hilarious. He's still young though and I give him credit for beating a decent opponent. I hope they give him some fights to let him develop a bit and don't throw him in with the wolves, because he would get devoured right now.

It's an encore tonight, Dream 4 was last weekend.

In the second there was a few times where Tanner was on the way out, Grove through a couple of strikes then just stopped anddd held on.

Tanner is tough man, he gets hurt all the time and recovers very well. Grove was trying to finish him when he had him hurt, but you don't want to blow your wad trying to force a finish that's not there either.

you all covered it.

I immeditately said to my wife: "CB is mad at himself and changed his mind about tapping and was hoping it would not have been called"

So, is one "tap" considered tapping out? I mean it was clear he wasn't trying to hurt Amir with the tap or push his leg, but it could be a confusing gesture in other situations if you hit one time.

I like watching Kendal and Diego, glad to see them vitorious.

And Anderson is not the best P4P, it's BJ Penn

I think CB began to tap but as he pulled away the sweat helped it loosen up, he felt it loosen and by then it was too late... He will still be in the UFC just like most of the others.. Jesse Taylor needs to stay in his cave he could have been there and got at least a secondary contract even if he lost.. I hope Dana makes him sweat it out to make him grow up a little.. What a stupid ass.. Heres a 6 figure contract and heres a bottle of liquor what do you choose?

Good job Amir. Fun guy to watch. Please learn takedown defense next.

Luigi Fiorivanti needs to hit the gym and move down to 155. He just looks lazy, both during the fight and where conditioning is concerned. I though Diego looked good, and was very impressed with his patience. He knew when to press his advantage, and didn't force it. He may need to learn some new striking angles, though, to facilitate his takedowns.

I'm not sure who the best pound for pound fighter in the world is. Silva is definitely a contender to that spot, as are Penn and Faber. We'll never see Silva fight either one, but I'd love to see Faber/Penn at 155.

As long as Silva is checking out 205, lets get Silva vs Silva lined up while Wandy still has some game.

Silva vs Silva is gonna happen in October. Wandy vs Thiago though. Still thats gonna be a good one. I think if Anderson wins his next 2 and Chuck beats Rashaad the big New years show main event this year will be Chuck/Anderson.

Torres?


and he tapped. The only reason he didn't get his arm snapped was because Amir let it go. That has to be a tap otherwise fighter will feign taps. It was clear he wanted out, even if for a second. That's the fighters responsibility. The ref was only following the fighters request.

Amir seems like a great dude. I hope he develops some sort of killer instinct

Yes, his standup was not good, but his BJJ was smoother than anyone else in the game right now-his transition into full guard and the armbar was really sick.