MMAjunkie had Kimbo winning the 2nd round due to more damage

And yes, I apprently am in the minority as so many there are screaming about this sham and how it hurts MMA.
Blah, I take it for what it is. The XFL to UFC NFL.


*******

[thread hike]
just thought I'd say here, I can't wait for The Happening by M. Shammalaondingdong. Looks freaky as hell.
and The Strangers was a huge let down

and My Morming Jacket sounds awesome. On SNL
So glad white music is back.

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I've played poker with Joey Villasenor so it was good to see him destroy his bout.


Oh, and both those chicks could kick my ass hard.

Relax Oliver Stone, I'm sure it was just producer error.

Jeff, the regulars in here don't discuss much besides UFC. The comparison made to me when I was asking questions was "would people talk about triple A baseball in a MLB forum?" I'm with you, relatively new to the sport and watch most of the old UFC fights, worthwhile UFC PPVs and most of the free stuff from EliteXC and the WEC.


I'm with Actuary, I like Kimbo and want to see him do well. I was a tad surprised at the stoppage and probably think it should've went a little while longer, see if Kimbo knocks him down or if the guy falls himself, but hey, that's the price of human error and making a guy ref 4 events in a row, or 4 out of 5. I don't know. As far as Kimbo, his ground game is not good and the only reason it looked moderately decent at times was because Thompson is equally bad on the ground. Kimbo was in half guard and didn't even secure the leg that was between his legs. It looked like an easy mount for Thompson but he missed it. He kept working the crucifix, but when he had Kimbo pinned against the cage at the end of the second, those forearms were weak and tired. My thoughts on Kimbo, he needs waaaaay better gas and needs to learn a takedown defense. Liddell doesn't take people down and sits and bangs and counters, but he doesn't get taken down. And he can kick. Not comparing the two, just saying that there is a place in the sport for a guy that likes to throw hands. That ear was freakin' me out.

Final thoughts on Kimbo. He is humble and knows he needs work, and this fight will help him get better I think. Game action is what makes you learn. Now he'll know that he needs more gas, need to work on TD defense, ground skills, etc. Rome wasn't built in a day and I don't hate on him or blame him for having a whole organization thrown on his shoulders. It's not his fault. Every one of the UFC fighters would take that case and noteriety, regardless of record. But with fame and money comes scrutiny.

I was delighted to see Gus Johnson calling the action. I love me some Gus Johnson. He's all energy and very responsive and ebbs and flows with the action. He's not a seasoned MMA announcer, but that doesn't bother me.

The color commentator made me lol when he said that Carano's opponents face looked like it was put together like a ransom note. Good line.

Lawlor and Smith banged well, but like it's been said, you can't say you can't see twice and continue to fight.

edit: the kimbo fight was a tough one to score. Thompson had him down late in rounds but took huge uppercuts in the first half of rounds.

based on the criteria...

i had thompson winning round 1...but it was VERYYYY close
I think Kimbo eating elbows from the bottom for 2+minutes in round 2 gives the round to Thompson as well
The only way Kimbo wins the fight in my mind...is by knockout in the third round..

I also wouldnt mind seeing him do well, I think that a guy who is as strong as him could do well in MMA, I can only imagine what will happen if he decides to put his head down, train his ass off, and work a ton on his ground game.

Thompson's chin, as I believe was mentioned above, is suspect from his previous fights, and if that is still the case..it makes me wonder if Kimbo is the powerful striker he's been hyped up as...

I'm kind of a noob when it comes to MMA, thoughts?

thompsons shorts were coming down..

lawl

that's actually an excellent point. I think the black mohawked dude from the first fight of the night knocked Thompson out when they fought 5 months ago or so, so maybe you're right. Kimbo was gassed so maybe he had less on his punches. Either way, I don't want to get hit in the face by anyone.


also, from a marketing standpoint, it wasn't great for the first MMA primetime free telecast to have one bout be a no contest and another get a questionable stoppage. I loved when Gus Johnson started screaming that it was a horrible stoppage right away, letting his emotion get the best of him and forgetting that raising suspicion probably wasn't the best idea. haha. God I love Gus Johnson. I didnt' know he was black until recently, when he did a Bill Simmons podcast. I'm not too bright.

yes!

Overall, I thought the production, announcers, and Gus were solid.

One silly comment was {paraphrasing} "Sometime there is no action. People get frustrated, but this isn't boxing"
No kiddding. But that's a good thing.

i figured it was something to do with the censors. they had go to dead air alot to for sound

I thought the production was a little over the top in the beginning but it seemed to level off.


I absolutely hate when ignorant, blood thirsty morons boo after 30 seconds of fighters feeling each other out or setting up a move. Ignorance isn't bliss in this case, it's just plain ignorant.

Baroni has a fantastic physique, but after that entrance, I was happy to see him get KTFO

Yep. That's what I think this fight exposed more than any other of the conspiracy theories. Kimbo looked much less scary after this fight.
Is there any sport that is "all about match-ups" more than MMA. It's easy to look amazing against cans. (note: I think it's ok to fight cans for your first 3 MMA fights. )

excellent point. I meant to ramble on about that as well when I rambled about Kimbo. 3 fights deep, its ok to look a little amatuerish and unskilled in certain situations. Thats growing pains, but like I did ramble about, he has the weight of a hemorraging organization and the general public's perception of the sport on his shoulders. Can't be easy. Most guys get their first 5 fights in annonymity. But I don't feel too badly for him, he is, as he put it, "a six figga nigga"


also, actuary, is that Jeff Stryker in your avatar? Sexy

hells yes.

and good night all.

I think the stoppage was fine. Puts Kimbo's place in mma kind of in perspective though a little bit. He'd get owned by any mid level ufc fighter I think. Nice to see him humble though, saying he has more to learn, etc. I hope he does well.

Apart from the first two fights I was entertained.

What was up with that dudes ear, that was freaky. It was like a bubble full of blood and Kimbo popped it.

Why did that first fighter have Big Black from Rob and Big in the ring? I wonder if that was just for show, or is he actually friends with those guys. I think he would match up good in a fight with Kimbo.

Dana White is really a smart guy. He had the Chuck piece running on Spike the same time as the Elite XC on my cable channels.

I really dislike Elite XC. I've watched it before and think there are a couple of good fighters in there. But for the most part, I think the whole thing is pretty much just garbage.

A lot of things about Elite XC don't seem right to me. I think it's bad that the general public is seeing that for the first time on primetime TV.

I have never once seen a ref stop a fight for a cut or bleeding without having the doctor check it first...............

\

I agree, the whole thing is crap! Bad Camera angles, Bad commentary, Fights being stopped for bullsht, UFC Ratings just went up! Thumb in eye ok you have five minutes, 1:45 later Fight ends? The whole thing was BS!

Well hopefully tomorrow night on Versus Urijah/ Pulver fight can help the fans! I have Urijah as the favorite. Pulver better land a Haymaker Left to win!

Well of course they need their main man Kimbo to build up a nice career...

It was stopped due to Thompson being out on his feet. (or at least the ref thought he was)

Curious to me why this non-Zuffa brand of fighting is so divisive.
Also, interesting how EliteXC has no problem mentioning the UFC in a good light; while UFC commnetators hardly ever mention other brands - and not in a positive way.

I could write miles on how TUF is over dramatized to bring in the casual fan who needs a back story to care about the fight. Give me two guys with heart and I can pretty much take the rest of the mess with a grain of salt.

If Kimbo was in the UFC and say the 8th best HW, would you think he was bad for MMA?

I obviously agree with that. But if that is all Elite XC has going for it........sigh.

Gary Shaw walking around the ring after each fight is just kind of creepy to me.

Like I said, something doesn't seem right with the organization.

I can't see myself ever betting on those fights.

Seems Kimbo would be an easy bet if one thinks something is fishy
Or do you fear you'll pick the fight that they decide to let Kimbo lose, to "make it look legit"

I wonder if the multi questionable early stoppages were due to CBS?

Zuffa has the best fighters.

I'm not opposed to other organizations as long as I feel that they are on the up and up. I have my doubts about Elite XC. That has little to do with quality of fighters, and everything to do with the integrity of a company. The last thing MMA needs is to turn into boxing where you never "really" know what is fair and what isn't.

EliteXC mentions UFC because it's pretty hard not to notice it, and a lot of times when fighters get booted from there, they go to Elite. UFC doesn't need to do that. They seem to be doing pretty well on there own.

TUF is a tv show, not an MMA event. I honestly could care less about how it comes across to people.

I would love to see Kimbo in the UFC. He would lose, and have to actually work on his game. It would be a fair fight, and he might even get (gasp) some real competition. I don't blame Kimbo personally. When he says things like I only fight for the money, I truly believe him. He is a fighter, not an MMA mighter. Big difference. So he should work his way up the ranks. But his organization is milking him for all he is worth. Makes sense, I just think it's bad for MMA.

I also am not a fan of Brock Lesnar headlining in the UFC. But at least when he fights, it's against good competition. And the refs are actually working the fight with no hidden agenda.

I'm giving EliteXC the benefit of the doubt, but would not be SHOCKED if it turns out to be shady. I just don't think too much about whether it's good or bad for MMA. I like to watch fights.

You don't think Kimbo works on his game?

I think that Kimbo is a one dimensional fighter. A lot of the work on the ground from this last fight actually looked staged imo. They both looked horrible.

I do think that Kimbo spends some time on his game. Last time I checked, Bas lives and has a gym in LA, and Kimbo lives in Florida. That doesn't show a ton of dedication on Kimbo's part. I like Bas, but I don't think he is a great coach. I would be really impressed if Kimbo trained with American Top Team (they are actually in Florida), AKA in Northern California, Greg Jackson in New Mexico. Tons of places where Kimbo could get training with other MMA fighters. In truth, I really don't care what he does. I'm not a fan.

I think TUF this season has become much less about the drama, and much more about the fights.

I kind of liked it the other way around, where we saw more of the back story and got to know more about the guys.

true

I like back story; just not hyped-fake drama

No, because he simply wouldn't be. Now, however, he is being portrayed as the sports biggest star, when people who don't have their head in their ass are embarrassed he is the one representing the sport. Like has been said many times, he sets the sport back. He brings back that image that the UFC has been trying to get away from for ten years.

Like steve7stud said, it's nothing against Kimbo as a person, but for me at least, it's how EliteXC hypes him that makes me sour on him. Biggest show in MMA history and the guy we all know is sooo sloppy was made to look great. Plus apparently his next fight is to introduce the EliteXC Heavyweight Belt. Sighhhhh

I thought that the production was horrible. I would've thought that being the first time on prime time that the company would've paced things out better due to time constraints then seemingly let it all run a muck.

On yahoo news theres an article about the stoppages being more out of concern for what CBS would be okay with from a censor point. On that note the Kimbo stoppage after four solid undefended shots wasn't as bad as others I've seen.

I missed the thumb to the eye in the Lawler fight but when I fliped over and they stopped I was wondering how much time constraints went into the stopage.

Kimbo obviously needs a ton of work but I laughed hard when earlier in the night they described him something like a true brass roots fighter without the big marketing machine behind him.

Protecting Kimbo in an attempt to make him a name before placing him against better opponents makes sense from a marketing stand point but most people who follow MMA can tell he hasn't faced any real challenge at this point.

As Steve said it's like the Lesnar thing they could've sold him to an audience virtually fighting anyone but that's not what real fans want to see and the fact that they've had Lesnar fight quality opponents makes me respect him and the UFC more.

I'll probably at least browse eliteX when I see it on in the future but feel on the whole that they just blew a big chance to build an audience in MMA.

For context http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjep2b224Go (Fight starts at 4:30 mark)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG6bkoeJ88Y

The fights as a whole were pretty decent. The Lawler/Smith fight was very good. Carano/Young was another scrap and then 2 clean finishes by Villasenor and Rogers was great too. The Kimbo fight was also interesting as well, so I would say just from the fights it was a pretty good night. The production of the show was just annoying to me though and I found it unneccessary.

That cauliflower ear Thompson was sporting was just nasty. I knew it was going to be a problem for him looking at it before the fight, defintely needs to get that fixed. They were both lost on the ground, Kimbo's reversals were due to power and Thompson's terrible top control rather than technique. His takedown defense might have been even worst. He definitely gassed quite a bit in this fight, I think he probably expected to hit Thompson a couple of times and have him fall like his other fights. At this point, Kimbo is not really close to being able to compete with even decent heavyweights out there. He's got zero takedown defense and his ground is not much better. He had that guillotine locked in multiple times and didn't know how to finish it.

Lawler/Smith was a war, I thought Smith was done after that 1st round and was amazed he continued. That was just a weird stoppage at the end, but at least we get to see a rematch.

Carano showed she could actually fight. That was pretty good technique from both of them standing, might have been the best shown all night. Again, I'm not sure I understand the stoppage on this one either. It looked like Young could continue. I gotta say it's annoying how EliteXC tries to promote her as the face of Woman's MMA every chance they get.

the difference being, if Lesnar starts off with two consecutive losses, like he might do, then what? Let him keep racking up losses and let the fans write him off? No, they'll start throwing tomato cans in against him so he can get a feel for winning and some momentum, which would help his career in the longrun.

Kimbo's home base is in Miami, but from everything I've seen and read, he lives and does his camp in L.A. with Bas.

You kinda come off as a bitter girlfriend of the UFC. Sure, they have better fighters, but you have this huge bias and negative attitude about Elite. Sure, it's the minor leagues, but it can be entertaining. You said you have reasons you don't like them, and didn't explain. You think everything is fixed and that would be a concern, but it's purely conjecture on your part. I don't know, you just seem like a negative grump, but I do believe that you are entitled to your opinion. Of course I want it to be on the up and up, but I've never suspected anything less. If it was gonna be fixed, don't you think they'd match him up with a better opponent, then fix it? That would seem more logical to me.

I'm certainly not a Kimbo or EliteXC apologist, I just take it for what it is. A lesser league that can have some entertaining fighters and fights. I don't think it should be the face of MMA, but the UFC chose to keep their product off of free tv for the most part. And I do believe that true fans will get tired of having to pay $50 bucks every month to see some watered down cards and some good cards. I've said in the past that I think Dana White's ego may come back to bite him in the ass.

Also, Gary Shaw is in the ring after every fight, which is probably over the top. It looked like he was trying to tell the fighters what to mention during the post fight interview. In his defense, this was kind of a big night for them, on a big stage. Cant risk someone saying or doing something completely stupid.

Oh well.

after all my blathering, I do agree with this article 100%


MMA’s network debut mocks true sport
By Kevin Iole, Yahoo! Sports
10 hours, 14 minutes ago


It sounded like such a good idea when the news broke a few months ago that CBS would broadcast a series of mixed martial arts cards in prime time.

But after watching its effort on Saturday’s Elite XC show from the Prudential Center in Newark, N.J., the good news might be if CBS opts not to do another show.

These were supposed to be the professionals who would show the amateurs at the Ultimate Fighting Championship, who do their own production, how it’s supposed to be done.

And while neophyte play-by-play man Gus Johnson acquitted himself well and analysts Mauro Ranallo and Frank Shamrock didn’t embarrass themselves, the broadcast dragged on interminably.

There was more chatting than “The Tonight Show.” Fighters were introduced as they made long, slow walks to the cage, then were introduced again once they hit the cage. Given that the show went 45 minutes over its allotted time, what do you want to bet the ring walks will be eliminated if there is another show on CBS?


For some reason, particularly early in the broadcast, CBS chose to use its overhead camera to repeatedly show Elite XC’s skanky-looking cheerleaders doing nothing more than shaking their butts.

This wouldn’t have been so bad had there actually been a fight on the air every now and then. But after the show had been on the air for 32 minutes, there had been 61 seconds of actual fighting. When it was 70 minutes into the show, there had been just 2:12 of fighting.

The whole show was built around Kimbo Slice, the Internet-generated star whose street fights made him into something of a mythical figure in the sport before he’d ever faced a serious opponent.

Slice’s name and face was everywhere in the days and weeks leading up to the bout. Considering the way this dragged on, though, you have to wonder how many folks were still awake when the bell rang to begin Slice’s bout with James Thompson at 11:27 p.m. ET, nearly a full half-hour after the show was supposed to have been over.

While it was mostly C-level talent on display, the fighters by and large held up their end of the bargain. Brett Rogers delivered a one-punch knockout of one-time Syracuse linebacker Jon Murphy in just 1:01 in the first fight of the night.

After glorifying loutish middleweight Phil Baroni as some sort of star – ignoring the fact he’d lost three of his last four and was just a decidedly mediocre 10-9 coming in – CBS looked bad when he was knocked out in 1:11 by Joe Villasenor.

The next two bouts were sensational. Gina Carano outslugged Kaitlin Young after two rounds and middleweights Robbie Lawler and Scott Smith went at it fiercely until Smith was inadvertently poked in the eye in the third, forcing a premature end to their middleweight title bout.

The main event showcased two mediocre fighters in mediocre condition, though after listening to Johnson, Ranallo and Shamrock, you’d have thought we were watching the MMA equivalent of Ali-Frazier.

Have no doubt about this: Slice would be destroyed by any legitimate mixed martial artist. Had Slice faced ex-WWE champion Brock Lesnar, the current UFC rookie hopeful, he’d have been beaten in less than two minutes.

As it was, Slice struggled his way to a sloppy third-round knockout of a complete tomato can.

You can’t blame Slice, because he had no business being in a main event of a mixed martial arts bout at this stage of his progression. It takes years of training and sacrifice to reach the main event in MMA and Slice was only there because of the notoriety he’d gained in his YouTube street brawls.

It was kind of ironic that at the show’s opening, Shamrock said with a straight face, “You won’t find them fighting in a bar and you won’t find them fighting in the street.”

Really?

Well, this card featured a guy (Baroni) who fights in bars and another who made his name by fighting in the streets.

CBS should have known better.

The fans deserved better.

The sport deserved better.

The CBS folks ought to take a look at the WEC card on the cable network Versus on Sunday to see how an MMA show is supposed to be put together. They’ll learn from watching that show how to introduce the viewers to the fighters but not drag the show on like a book that goes on 200 pages too long.

They’ll see quality fights between trained and competitive MMA fighters.

Hopefully, CBS didn’t manage to turn off a large segment to the country to what is a classic and compelling sport.

There’s no question, though, that CBS didn’t do MMA any favors Saturday.

Well if he can't compete with the best after losing so many, then why keep putting him in with the best? Of course they would give him lesser competition if he proves that he can't compete with the best.



Very good, and overlooked point. CBS wanted that to be the UFC.

Its really to bad the Lawler/Smith fight got stopped. I rewatched it last night and that 2nd round is about as good as gets for a stand up war.

well, to your first point, a fighter has to be developed, and every great fighter in history started off fighting inferior competition so they could build confidence, learn to win and develop ring saavy. I think it's unfair to Lesnar to make his first fight against Mir, a jit expert. Then again, I have a mancrush on Mir. I hope he's doing the color tonight. I digress

HBO also tried to get the UFC signed up, but it didn't work out. Who knows, maybe the networks and HBO were low balling the offers, but I do think HBO and the UFC would've been a nice matchup. But as seen by boos by ignorant audiences, it can be tough to develop an educated fan to the sport. It has to be cultivated, and PPVs aren't going to do that. Maybe they are happy with their niche. Either way, I'm a fan, so eff it.

He better be. I think he is a very good color guy



So true. And disgusting. "What a sweep by Kimbo!"

imo, even if Lesnar gets crushed, hes such an animal that with time and dedication hell be here to stay

If he gets crushed again(I think Herring will win) his next fight wont be anywhere near the ME unless its a UFC fight night even then he probally wouldnt make the last 2 fights.

I think this is more accurate. his entrance was what I first saw when we turned the show on. I watched that ridiculous display, turned off the tv, and drove down to the river to drink with friends. looks to me like they're trying to make it a spectacle like professional wrestling and I'm not getting involved in that bullshit.


haha, yeah I didn't put two and two together until we switched channels from the chuck thing to elite xc and I started laughing. pretty smart.

What does everyone think about betting Jason Day at +260 over Michael Bisping?

meh, Bisbing did look pretty good in his 185 debut. Havent seen enough of Day to know how big a dog he should be. I think Bisbing is on a path to a Bisbing Silva superfight soon, where he will get crushed.

Are there options? Carano has some mass appeal because of American Gladiators. Plus she's pretty hot.

That pissed me off so damn much - totally with you on that. It's a freaking 5 round title fight and they ended up slugging it out better than anyone else the entire night. But they boo whenever the action slows down...STFU! If I were in the crowd i'd probably end up getting in a fight with someone booing.

---

JC, Steve, Hoos et al...are there fights in the crowd at these events? Or pretty tame? I could imagine a lot of adrenaline mixed with probably booze could result in some crazy times.

oh

triples post

on topic with the fans... Gary Shaw is feeding that segment that likes brawlers.
I miss the ground game. Heck, we didn't even get a ground game with Sherk v Penn.

One thing that is getting to me is the mellowing of the fighers personalities once they get into the UFC (or any organization). It's as if they are being prepped. I totally understand it from a marketing point of view. But I want more characters, not clones, and not fake hype.

- eh, I know we get some variety but it feels as if there is a heavy hand in there.

for the record, submission fighters are my favorite to watch.


I have no urge at all to buy the upcoming UFC PPV on Saturday. Decent fighters on the card, but none worth my $55. $30 bucks maybe. Just my worthless opinion

In defense of my bet... I know Baroni has been out of shape for the last year/two, but I thought just the character he is he would see this fight as an opportunity to become the monster superstar he wants to be and would get himself ready. I have also not been impressed with Smokin Joe, so decided Baroni was winning this fight. I was wrong, but just wanted to let you know where I was coming from.

it's all relative
you broke ass.

You know the best fights are often surprises.

Yea I am gonna skip 85 too. 2 weeks after the last is too soon anyway, especially after probally the deepest card ever. Both 86 and 87 are shaping up as cant miss though.