I think there is a ton of value in Alves.

I see Horn winning the fight. But it's going to be a boring one at that.

Good value on Lytle, a lot of it will depend on his takedown defense. If he can keep it standing, he's a favorite.

how? cause he doesn't have KO power, and Dean Lister is one of the best ground guys in the world

Neither one of them are good at standing.

The ground game is going to be neutralized. I have never been impressed with Dean Lister.

Jeremy Horn has much better stand up than Lister imo. And Horn has a RIDICULOUS amount of fights under his belt. He also has a lot more heart than Lister.

Again, I see this being a very boring fight, but I think Horn wins.

this is exactly why I think that Lister will win. Horn hasn't looked all that good of late and IMO is showing signs of wear and tear

I agree that this could very well be a boring fight, it also has the chance to be a great ground match with lots of transitions and submission attempts. At least that's what I'm hoping for

Horn has looked like garbage over the last little while, but mostly because he's been a last second replacement. Hopefully he trains because he's looking less in shape with every fight, even though he's never really had a great physique.

plus, horn's like 84 now.



anybody ever watched videos of these guys training? I saw the one on ufc.com of sherk's workout and it got me searching youtube for other fighters workouts. those dudes are absolutely, ridiculously intense. they do 10 sets of a circuit that would have me puking at the end of the first. so far I've only seen the two on ufc (sherk and silva) and a few on youtube. anybody know anyplace else that has training/workout videos? they'd be really helpful for my own workouts.

Richard Simmons has amazing workout videos. Can't go wrong.

Yeah Horn always cracks me up when I see him get in the cage. Guy never looks to be in shape. But he doesn't really seem to gas either. In his fight against Marquardt, I had to lay a heavy price to get Marquardt but it ended up being worth it.

I really don't care who wins between the two, unless of course I'm betting on the fight. But if Horn has ample notice, I think he is a favorite.

They've already fought almost 5 years ago. Horn won that fight, but it was somewhat close. With the way Horn has looked lately, there's no way I would bet on him. He seems to have gotten old and had all those fights catch up to him. He's still craft with his sub game, but I don't see him being able to catch Lister. With Lister, you really have no idea what his mindset is going to be. Sometimes, he has some very crappy gameplans in his fights and he loses due to this alone. He tends to try and be too tactical rather than just fighting. The way he pulls guard is just dumb, nobody is going to follow him into it when they're better than him standing. That line for Lister is not bad though, just based solely on how Horn has looked lately.

We are 5 days away from one of the greatest cards ever, and we are talking about future cards. Shame on us.

Lets pick some winners.

lol, we're such degens


I honestly have a hard time seeing BJ do anything but beat Sherk. He's done well against better and tougher guys

I'm picking wandy over Jardine. Wandy should be out to prove himself and I still don't really know what Jardine is as a fighter, he's been a bit of a conundrum to where at times he's looked like a possible top fighter, and at times has looked like a mid range guy

I'm going with Lyoto over Tito and it will probably be a boring fight and it will probably go to a decision

Thiago Silva over Mendes. UFC is positioning Silva for a run to a title fight and this is a another win on the way to getting there

I have to say though, I'm surprised that the Kaz/Soku fight isn't being broadcast

What a waste of time. These were my picks, lol. You must have read that somewhere. If I knew how to spell plagerism I would accuse you of it.

Oh, and I am going with Machita heavy.

yeah, I was eating my Taco today and it dawned on me... we have Tito, Wandy, and BJ Penn on the SAME CARD!
And a solid supporing cast as well.


Bet:

BJ
Lyoto
Jardine

cant wait

What time do the prelims ussuually start at these? Do you guys ussuually get there in time to watch the whole card?
Sooooooooooo jealous!

We always watch the whole card. A lot of times we get angry because we would have bet the underdogs and we were unable to get action at that casino.

I think we are going to the weigh ins on Friday. Should be a good weekend.

So I just watched Countdown to UFC 84, and I will give my thoughts. I really am grateful that I get to see that before going to a fight.

BJ Penn- Looks good and really focused. Seems relaxed and determined.

Sean Sherk- Honestly believes he is going to win. Has a lot riding on this fight. He is in it to win it. If BJ makes a small mistake or gasses, Sherk can take it.

Vanderlei Silva- Looks older. Seems to be in ok condition. Training with the snorkel again. I would have liked to have seen him sparring.

Keith Jardine- Looks confused. Serisouly. The guy seems kind of unsure of himself right now. I know that he is training hard. But I didn't get the sense that his head was in the right place. He's lucky he comes from a good team.

Lyoto Machida-Spoke English. I honestly could stop right there, because that is all I was thinking about. It wasn't just a few words, complex thoughts. Blew me away. His game plan is great. Training with AKA to work on his wresting is a brilliant idea. The guy is a genius.

Tito Ortiz- Looked to be in decent shape. Training in Huntington Beach, not Big Bear. Bad sign for Tito. Means he is not taking this fight too seriously. Was very complimentary of Machida. Obviously respects him. I wish Dana White just kept his mouth shut. I don't want anything funny to happen in this fight.

Are they one in the same?

(from MMAJunkie) in response to someone saying UFC85 is the worst card in history:

Actuary on May 21, 2008 at 11:03 am ET

then don't buy it.
I'd pay $250 for UFC 84.
we all have a price.
Free Market.

LOL: http://my.break.com/content/view.aspx?ContentID=505060

Also, anybody know where I can watch the countdown to UFC 84 online? It was on Spike last night but I am back in the UK at the moment and we don't have spike tv

There's all kinds of content on the ufc site - http://www.ufc.com/index.cfm?fa=MultiMedia.video if you haven't seen it.

Sigh, where are the fkin prelim lines?!!! This is tilting me

I watched a lot of stuff from the UFC link a few days ago. I think Kenny Florian is an intelligent guy. He breaks down the fights and gives his picks.

He picked Jardine to win. Hmmm.

he looks familar.
I try not to get on too many boards, it can take up a lot of time.
Especially ones with rabid idiots

After Steve's summary, I feel even better.

Unfortunately I'm headed to TN this weekend and will wait until Monday to watch it.

I like Jardine to win too. Silva looked pretty old against Liddel. Dan Henderson said there is already plans in the works for a Hendo/Wandy match up at 185. If a guy is already talking about dropping down before his next fight you gotta wonder about his chances. I see alot of leg bruises in Wandys future.

I'm actually going to fire at least 1 unit on Jardine, maybe more if I can get a better price.

I was thinking about changing my bet too after watching the countdown....the thing is that if silva didn't get KO'd by chuck, he's NOT getting KO'd by Jardine....and Jardine isn't aggro enough to just beat the shit out of Silva for 3 rounds like he did vs Chuck. I just think Wandy is gonna push the pace too much and keith won't get too many kicks in.


Sigh I dunno though.

less analysis, more training trip reports, imo

Lol I went back today.....

Since I felt so shitty about the first time I went I decided to wait a whole week and do cardio every day at the gym instead. Then I decided to get 1 hr private class so that I can just get the basics down and I wouldn't look like a tool in class. So I called up and set up a class for today (wed.) at 12, with the same instructor as last time, named Dennis Davis, I think the dude fought in IFL and some other stuff.

Anyway the guy was cool as shit, and very helpful. Right off the bat he had me doing some drills so that I could learn to work from there, and they were hard as hell, right now I feel like I did 10,000 sit ups. It's not the usual "I just had a work out" pain, it's the "holy shit, I just did an 8 hour weight lifting session with every muscle in my body" pain.

Overall it was really cool, and still super hard to get any of the moves I learned to look good. I must have done 50 arm bar attempts and I think my first 25 and my last 10 were all dislexic b/c I kept throwing my leg to the opposite side of where it was supposed to go (like hoosier's superman punch), the first 25 mistakes were from lack of experience and the last 10 were from exhaustion. I also learned an Americana, Kimora, how to escape a mount, and how to pass guard. I actually made it through a whole hour this time so I'll try to go on friday and take a regular class again.

(semi) serious question - do you ever feel somewhat "effeminate" (sp?) laying on the ground with a dude straddling you, trying to tell you how to wiggle out of a mount??

Some intersting lines on Bodog.

Welterweights -Preliminary Bouts - Sat 24th May 08 Both must fight for action. Singles Only. Max $500
Jon Koppenhaver
+140

Yoshiyuki Yoshida
-170


Heavyweights -Preliminary Bouts - Sat 24th May 08 Both must fight for action. Singles Only. Max $500
Shane Carwin
-180

Christian Wellisch
+150


Welterweights -Preliminary Bouts - Sat 24th May 08 Both must fight for action. Singles Only. Max $500
Jason Tan
+250

Dong Hyun Kim
-325


Middleweights -Preliminary Bouts - Sat 24th May 08 Both must fight for action. Singles Only. Max $500
Ivan Salaverry
-170

Rousimar Palhares
+140


Light Heavyweights -Preliminary Bouts - Sat 24th May 08 Both must fight for action. Singles Only. Max $500
Rameau Sokoudjou
-265

Kazuhiro Nakamura
+205


Lightweights -Preliminary Bouts - Sat 24th May 08 Both must fight for action. Singles Only. Max $500
Rich Clementi
-260

Terry Etim
+200


Light Heavyweights -Ultimate Fighting Championships 84 -MGM Grand Garden Arena, Nevada - Sat 24th May 08 Both must fight for action. Singles Only. Max $500
Wilson Gouveia
-130

Goran Reljic
EVEN


Light Heavyweights -Ultimate Fighting Championships 84 -MGM Grand Garden Arena, Nevada - Sat 24th May 08 Both must fight for action. Singles Only. Max $500
Thiago Silva
-850

Antonio Mendes
+550


UFC 84 - Light Heavyweights-Sat, May 24th (11:00pm EST) MGM Grand Garden Arena, Nevada Both must fight for action. Singles Only. Max $500
Wanderlei Silva
-190

Keith Jardine
+155


UFC 84 - Light Heavyweights-Sat, May 24th (11:00pm EST) MGM Grand Garden Arena, Nevada Both must fight for action. Singles Only. Max $500
Lyoto Machida
-200

Tito Ortiz
+160


UFC 84 - Lightweights - May-24-2008 - MGM Grand Garden Arena, Nevada 11:25 pm EST Both must fight for action. Singles Only. Max $500
BJ Penn
-250

Sean Sherk
+200

FINALLY

Time to do some research and analysis boys...

OK...I gotta ask... WTH is IceMan doing in your signature?
Can't tell if he just did a line of coke or if he's having a seizure.

I think this is going to be a card for the betting underdogs.

Salaverry is a solid fighter, but it sounds like he is about ready to pack it in. People are comparing Palhares to Filho. Def worth a bet as the underdog.

I hate to bet against Clementi as I have made more money with him than any other fighter, but Etim is pretty solid and +200 isn't a bad price.

Again, I hate to bet against Thiago Silva, but that line is ridiculous. At first I thought it would be out there, but the more I read on Mendes the more I thought the line would be in the high -200's. Giving Mendes a 15% chance to win? Seriously? There are websites out there saying this could be an even scrap. I don't know if I would go that far, but I think it shows how far out of line this one is.

I like Jardine as well. He is going to be the much larger fighter with the reach advantage. He has a solid chin and will wear Wandy's legs down to the bone.

You, get the fuck out of this thread and never come back. Stay in General Poker where you belong.

wasn't Koppenhaver scheduled to fight somebody different just a few days ago? I would have sworn he was fighting somebody else but I can't quite remember who.

I don't think there's any way in hell Thiago Silva loses this fight. +550 is inviting though. It's be a good $10 bet, but that's it.

I think Jardine is going to win too. He's getting better and better and if it wasn't for that Alexander fight, he'd be atop the LHW division for sure.


Yoshiyuki Yoshida vs. Jon Koppenhaver. He's still on the card.

huh? my question was that I thought he was fighting somebody else just a few days ago, somebody other than Yoshida.

Nope. He's been the opponent for a while.

oh I see now what I was thinking. I saw that Jared Rollins was fighting Ben Saunders in 86 and just confused them all since they were on the same show. carry on.

Interesting... as I think more about it it made me wonder what may happen in a Penn/Kimbo fight.

Anyway, I'm super pumped about Saturday... although I'm real shaky on my Wandy/Tito/Penn bets... to all those going enjoy

I don't know if Penn is quite strong enough to take down and hold down a kimbo slice...but it's true that Kimbo would probably not last against anyone with ground skills. Hell even Tito might be able to ground and pound him.

How bout Kimbo vs Lesnar? ::drool::

yes, they both are dreamy.



am I the only person giving sherk a chance here? I don't research every detail and follow all the hot topics and all that, but just seeing both of the fighters more recent fights, I just have to give sherk the credit for being ridiculously strong and quick. I mean, I still think BJ has the best chance, but I just think sherk has a lot better chance than everybody's giving him. I don't know. all I know is I'm totally looking forward to it.

Brock lay 'n pray 3 rounds no doubt.

If you read my analysis of the Countdown, it is very clear that I am giving Sherk a very good chance to win. I am not comfortable with laying such a big price, but I am betting on BJ. However, I will not be surprised if Sherk wins.

BJ feels like he has already won this fight imo. Sherk is going in there to win the fight.

We will have to see what happens.

Does seem true, but only if BJ has put in the cardio it takes to win will he feel as though he has won. If he really has put that cardio work in, maybe he has already won the fight.

BJ is ridiculously talented, Sherk and everyone else knows that. The pace that Sherk keeps is second to none. The guy has no quit in him. If BJ can stay on that level for however long the fight takes, it's a lock.........for Penn.

I added to my Jardine bet, as it's a better price now, surprisingly to me.
My gut thought real early money would go to Wandy.

So, is this still considered "Early" then ?


I got Soku (small) and Carwin (large)

So 87 just got a little more interesting... Coleman out, GSP/Fitch in, Brock still to fight.

I did bet Wandy early.

For people that didn't know, the Lesnar/Coleman fight is off, Coleman got hurt and it's been replaced by GSP/Fitch for UFC 87. This match was already made, so no big surprises there, but now we have a date for the fight.

I'm kinda surprised at the Salaverry line. I don't know a ton about Palhares, but he has some good hype about him. I'm also not sure where Salaverry's head is at as he's been thinking about retirement for a while now. It seems like good value to pick Palhares at +140.

damn,
That was going to be the easiest money ever

Good for Fitch, getting a chance.

early line GSP -1500??

I like fitch alot but I would bet GSP anything less than -400. Who is left for GSP at 170 if he beats Fitch? Maybe Alves if he beats Hughes. Any word or rumours who Lesnar is gonna fight now?