Yes this pissed me off greatly. (mostly bc I had $ on KP)

Yeah it was a great card tonight except for the stoppages which were definitely controversial in some ways. I actually expected the Diaz fight to get stopped when Pellegrino had his arm trapped and was pounding away. I think the Alexander stoppage was legit, he was out in my opinion. I thought the Karo and Lauzon stoppages sucked personally.

They really need to do something about the rules in regards to stoppages, because they can potentially ruin great fights. I can understand why the Lauzon fight was stopped, but it still doesn't make it right, especially if you compare the Diaz fight to his. Diaz took way more punishment than Joe did and his fight was allowed to continue, while Joe's was stopped. It would be good if they could make the rules more specific and not be an interpretation of the ref.

Loool @ yelling "take yo face out his balls!" when the guy had him in a triangle.


As for the stoppages, I think the houston on was legit, Karo was marginal but I think he was still getting his ass kicked. And I think nate was showing some ability to get out of that crucifix position which is why they let it go a little, but he was getting pounded pretty hard. I think it was comparable to the Brock fight where he was pounding Mir but everyone knew that he could back and win it. imo.


edit, I agree that the Kenny did 0 damage on joe from the mount, it was a pretty ridic stoppage

completely agree. everybody talking about "he could have come back" doesn't understand the whole purpose of a ref stoppage. if a fighter is out, he can't intelligently defend himself, and serious damage (ie deadness) can occur. doesn't matter if after a few seconds he'll be ok. karo was out, and that arm wasn't "defending" anything; it was limply draped across his face. big difference. when your knees buckle and you slump down like that, you're out, plain and simple. the last thing the UFC needs is some guy getting brain damage or killed because a ref let another fighter continue beating on him when he was completely out, and for that reason in these situations the refs HAVE to err on the side of caution. it isn't about what the fighters "want."


nice. hope this will get him another ppv showing of some sort. love watching that guy fight.


well to be fair, every fight nate has fought in he got dominated until he found his submission. thats just his style: take a beating until you can slip in some sort of submission. seems to be working pretty well now, but its gonna suck when he gets in there with either a serious striker who knocks him the fuck out, or another submission guy who beats him to the punch. it definitely was entertaining to see him just wait around for the sub and once he got it just relax knowing that his gameplan completely worked.


I didn't particularly "like" the florian/lauzon stoppage myself, but it wasn't going anywhere. joe couldn't get out of the mount, he was almost out of energy, and what else was the ref gonna do, stand them up when florian had a dominant position just because he was punching like a bitch? but seriously though, I hope he gets made fun of endlessly for having a mount on a guy for 2 minutes without getting in a single real punch.



also, I think I am REALLY going to enjoy this season of TUF. you've got pretty much the two funniest dudes in UFC couching. should be great. when the fights were going on and rampage and forrest were talking in the background, I swear it was like a mma version of mystery science theater 3000.

Well the ref should have let it go until Joe couldn't intelligently defend himself, and that was never the case.....I litereally didn't see one big punch go through and I saw Joe being close to getting out of that position for the past minute or so. I honestly thought joe was doing an amazing defensive job and actually did much better in offensive positions than what Kenny did. His elbows were def back to the head too, and standing them up was retarded considering Kenny was getting the worst of it as he fouled Joe.



lool mystery science theater is a great comparison. I thought it was hilarious. And so was Dana's "watching turtles ****" line. Or Rampage "did you smell this dude?" etc.... too funny. I cant wait for their actual fight, they're both some of my fav's.

Rampage was awesome. Anyone giving Serra more than 10% chance to beat GSP??

I also didn't agree with the stoppage in the Florien/Lauzon fight, as no real damage was being done by Kenny and Joe was still intelligently defending himself. Also, after watching last night's episode of TUF, I have to say that I am not looking forward to this season as much as the previous ones. Those were some sloppy fights. I thought that in a few of them, the outcome was determined not by who the more skilled fighter was, but rather by who could handle the weight cut the best and not gas. But who knows, maybe I will enjoy it more when they are down to 16...

Not this time, although I gave Serra 0% chance the last time too. That is going to be a great fight.



This time, you are seeing 32 fighters, not 16. Once they get it down to 16, it will look better. And it is always like that anyways. Usually there's only 6 or 8 guys that can fight and the rest of the guys are chumps.....Andy Wang, Danny Abbadi. There's a lack of talent every show imo, with exception of the top guys.

You mentioned weight cut - that was something I was thinking about while watching last night as well - if you knew you were heading to Vegas to be on TUF - what are you doing walking around almost 20lbs over your fight weight? Granted, they've never had to fight their way in, but if it's me, I'm showing up at or within 5lbs of my number.

Last season everyone was garbage except for Mac Danzig...George wasn't bad either I guess........I honestly believe that there must be 32 fighters out there at 185lbs that are better than the guys we saw last night.

I agree with you but this seems to happen every season with the guys on this show. I think part of the reason is that weight cutting is extremely difficult, and thus it is only done just before weigh ins to minimize the fatigue that results from it.

Losing Tim Slyvia will only result in better fights for the HW division. I'm not a fan, never was a fan, and never will be a fan of him. He'll also end up back in UFC at some point as I highly doubt that a lot of these start ups will stick around for all that long. EliteXC is the only one with a real shot IMO as they have Showtime to save their enormous losses right now. IFL is basically dead and we saw what happened to BodogFIGHT




RonnyMex took the joke that everyone was thinking




yea, there was no way that Alexander was with it and that was a solid stoppage. I think the Karo one was a bit questionable, and I didn't see the Lauzon stoppage as I fell asleep because I was catching the replay




it looked a bit high, but it also looked tight as hell too. Especially when he moved off to the side a bit to cinch it up even more




I think part of it is knowing that Diaz basically takes a beating each and every fight, though I really thought that Pellegrino was close twice in teh first round and if he had been able to sustain it for another few seconds it would've been stopped





I am, though I think GSP will still win

I think there needs to be a more specific definition for intelligently defending yourself. Personally, I feel if you put up your elbows and block every punch coming through, that's intelligently defending yourself. Others may disagree though. I'm not saying Kenny doesn't have a good mount, but the reason why it was effective was he was throwing pitter patter punches in order to try and score a BS stoppage. He wasn't trying to really hurt Joe and risk losing his position and he was throwing those stupid slicing elbows trying to cut Joe as well. Joe was tired in that fight, but he wasn't taking any damage and I think he could have made it out of that round. I just hate when fights are stopped and the figher isn't even taking any damage. It's like I said before, Diaz took way more damage in his fight than Joe did and his fight was allowed to continue, while Joe's got stopped.

The Karo stoppage was bad imo, because Alves didn't really hit him clean with the follow up shots and Karo had his hands up defending himself. The way Karo went down was no different than Nog getting knocked down by Sylvia, but he was allowed to continue whereas Karo was not. Personally, I was happy Alves won because I don't like Karo very much. That doesn't take away from the fact that the fight was stopped early though.

Diaz does usually get dominated early and come back to win, but in this case, Pellegrino got caught making an amateur mistake. He shouldn't have slammed him when Nate had a guillotine attempt on him. He then also dove his head in too deep after slamming him and allowed Nate to lock on a very deep triangle. From an excellent grappler like Pellegrino, it was pretty disappointing. If not for getting caught at the end, Pellegrino was outgrappling Diaz easy.

As for TUF, I think CB Dolloway is going to win the whole thing. It doesn't appear as though there is anyone even close to him skillwise in there.

We have only seen 1/2 the fighters though. And so far all these guys coming in with 4-4 and 4-5 records are just kind of bleh.

me. i think he's no worse than 3 to 1 but I'd say 2 to 1 is even closer to the real number if he comes in looking as good as he did in their first fight. Serra is no joke man, I'd say he's much better than Hughes, and will give GSP a much tougher time.

I'm not sure Serra would beat Hughes, but he's just a better match-up against GSP than Hughes is. GSP does everything better than Hughes. Serra has better BJJ than GSP and as we've seen, is certainly capable of knocking out GSP. I'm expecting GSP to go for the takedown and try to work in Serra's guard without passing. The last thing he wants is Serra on top of him. Serra's striking is a bit underrated as well, he's done real well against BJ and GSP standing, so it's not to be overlooked. This is going to be a tough fight for GSP, Serra is a tough fight for anyone.

I think Kenny won by Humiliation.
C'mon, I know he didn't score viscous shots but it was just getting pathetic, imo.

I realize technically, it was not necessary to stop the fight.

I tend to agree with this as well. While I was surprised that Kenny didn't finish the fight, it has to scare you when the ref warns you about doing something he believes is illegal. Not that Joe was in a position at that point to get hit in the back of the head, it had more to do with Kenny's state of mind. This is pure speculation on my part. But getting a warning like that has to throw your game off a bit, and will make you less aggressive by nature.

One thing that so many people are overlooking is how Joe looked at the end of the fight. He had no marks on his face. But he stayed on the ground after the ref called the fight and seemed totally exhausted and beaten. It's not like he jumped to his feet and started arguing......

yea, this is the only bet I was able to make. I honestly didn't think about the altitude issue in Denver, and I didn't know that Kenny went to train in Denver while Joe stayed in Hilo kickin it with BJ. I hated it when I heard this and wouldn't have made the bet at +170 if I had known, you could immed tell that joe was gassed in the 2nd round. That said, he had already gone from mounted to half guard twice and showed that he was protecting himself and just figuring out how to get out of the mount, it's pretty damn hard to get out of that, I think towards the end he should have given up his back as a last resort. But I'm no expert.

Irvin/Alexander was a legit stoppage. Alexander was out and stiff. The only thing that woke him up was another direct hit.

Alves/Karo might have been a bit premature, but certainly not even in the top 100 bad stoppages. The reason Alves's last two punches didn't land was because the ref was pushing him off of Karo.

Lauzon/Florian was a legit stoppage. If nothing else, just look at how Lauzon acted after the fight; congratulatory and not arguing at all. Of course that's Joe's style, but there was nothing he did to indicate he thought he got ripped. If Joe was OK with it, I am OK with it. Fantastic first round though.

Edgar was a bit disappointing. I think he just found someone bigger and stronger.

Boetsch looked pretty good until he gassed out...hard. Taking fights on short notice often is not a wise career move.

Anthony Johnson....just wow! That was a clinic.

Joe was out in Denver 2 weeks early to get used to the altitude and he did the proper preparation such as sleeping in a hyberbaric chamber. Still, you can't predict what is going to happen in a fight and getting tired happens even when you're in shape. There were a lot of fighters on the card who looked like they were affected by the Denver air Edgar usually fights very aggressive, but he looked dead tired. Boetsch lost his fight mostly due to being exhausted. There's no doubt Kenny has a very strong mount and I'd say he was pretty smart by throwing a large volume of shots to prevent Joe from escaping. If he had tried to put some power in his shots, he would have created space for Joe to get out. I think the reason Joe stayed in that position was in part due to him being exhausted and that he wasn't getting hit with anything significant.

Joe didn't complain after the fight, because he said that he could understand why the fight was stopped. That's not to say the fight should have been stopped or that he couldn't continue, because he definitely could have.

Having a better angle and watching the replay of the Karo fight, it wasn't as bad of a stoppage as I thought, I think Alves likely would have finished him anyways, but there was a chance Karo could have recovered.

I hope they gave Johnson some kind of bonus for that KO even if he didn't get KO of the Night. He's a beast, I don't know how he makes 170, but he's the biggest 170 fighter out there right now. He's 6"2 with a muscular frame and looks like he could probably even fight at 205 if he wanted.

Anyone check out the Manny Gamburyan fight? His opponent came out at the start of the fight wanting to touch gloves and Manny reached his hand out like he was going to touch his glove, but threw a kick instead. Pretty damn pathetic to try and win a fight this way I believe. You don't have to touch gloves, but don't fake like you're going to and throw a shot instead.

oh man I remember that. he was going at it so hard and then POW, nothing left. he went for a double leg and just kind of slid and stopped. it was a little sad.

WOW are you serious? where'd u find the fight? UFC on demand? .....also, did he win the fight like this?

Maybe the funniest thing I ever heard on TV. I was watching the replay of TUF last night and I missed that line the 1st time around but was waiting to hear it because of this thread. I almost pissed myself when I heard him say that.

I am looking forward to the KO they have been talking about. It sounds like a dude was crying from it. Well...the look on his face can't be any better than the look on the Farm Boy's face after getting nearly decapitated!!!

Nah he threw a girly side kick that didn't really land, but it was still rediculous. I downloaded the fight online, but if you look around on some MMA forums, you should be able to find a gif someone made of it.

I got the fight network about 2 weeks ago and its awesome. They had the Elitexc live card last saturday, some of the newer events from Japanm and show alot of Cage Rage, TKO, and other old events with guys like Anderson Silva and GSP. I know only a few cable companies in the states have it but try and get it if you can. Also some boxing and wrestling on there.

QFT! Honey Wrestling on the weekends FTW

at the time i remember thinking that Joe was a bit high up in the mount and giving his back there probably wouldn't have been all that bad, especially if he could scamble back to at the worse give up side control.

JL's defenses were pretty good there. i agreed with all the other stoppages, but i'm still not sure on this one. it becomes more acceptable if the ref. is standing over him saying "do something or i'm gonna stop it," but it shouldn't. there should be rules.

in all the other stoppages i saw them go limp and i think they would have continued to be beat totally totally unconscious if the ref wasn't there.



it still looks like the head is too shallow and the arm too far out. looking a it again it looks as though the actual choke was on KP's right side w/ diaz's leg.

edit: wow, when the camera switches angles right at the end of the fight, KP's arm looks a LOT more in there.

second edit: jeez, where did KP go to triangle defense school?

Pellegrino is an awesome grappler and his triangle defense wasn't the problem. His mistake was slamming Diaz after Diaz went for a guillotine, this allowed Diaz to pull his head deeper after the slam and transition right into a triangle after Kurt tried to pull his head out. His head and arm were trapped too deep and he had no chance to get out.

That's like saying "he keeps his hands up just fine, the problem was when he punched the guy, he dropped his hands"

I think a key element to Triangle Defense is staying out of the Triangle.

He's a BJJ Blackbelt and has competed at a lot of the top grappling tournaments out there like ADCC, Pan-Am's and etc, so he knows how to defend a triangle. He was getting the best of Diaz on the ground the whole fight until he made that mistake. Give credit to Nate for capitalizing, but Kurt ain't some chump when it comes to grappling either.

I realize Pelligrino is highly decorated and was winning the fight.
But in that split second he did not take into consideration the ramifications of slamming Nick when Nick already had head control and a mid-aire guard.
I think that was poor defense.

FYP

ooops.



I was picturing Nate, but typing Nick.

It was a tactical error in his wrestling, which I don't think has anything to do with his BJJ. He went for a single and Nate grabbed his head and he followed through with the slam anyways and left his head in there too deep.

Scum:

wow that's SO GAY.......Did you watch it on Demand? Did rogan say anything about that? Also if you're going to be that big of a fag anyways, then why do a shitty side kick to the armpit retard? Obv superman punch is the best option.


Also, heads up to everyone, ShoXC Ellite challenger thing is on tonight they usually have some decent fights.

ITA.

and DVR FTW

I already couldn't stand Manny from his blanket performance against Joe, but that lame kick takes the cake. I was pretty happy his cousin lost and hopefully karma catches up to Manny soon as well.

That's all Manny can do is blanket. "I'm not impressed by his performance"

The ShoXC fights were very entertaining imo.

when diaz gets his left leg over the arm it's not the time to stay composed. you gotta get your right arm back in or your left arm out. it looked to me like KP's left elbow sticks a bit far out when he should have tucked it as tight as possible and worked for room. at least that's the way i see it.

Sylvia vs. Fedor, July 19th. Fedor takes it, IMO. I don't like this fight though. If Sylvia does manage to beat Fedor, it will make the Randy vs. Fedor fight less epic.

Well they keep lining up the tomato cans for Kimbo Slice to ko. His next fight(the one on CBS) is against this guy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SsAmJz6-ZU...feature=related (the loser) The guy looks good but has a loss to Butterbean among others on his mma record.

I can't see this happening, like almost ever. I don't know how he can win outside of some freak accident.





Lol at not retiring after that.

The problem is not with his opponents but with the hype.
He's only had 2-3 MMA matches. He's fighting tougher fights than most do with <3 fights.

There's just a disconnect between who he fights and the fact he headlines because he's a huge draw.

To be honest neither can I. Sylvia has already been submitted by Nog, Mir and Arlovski, lol. Fedor is the worst possible matchup for Silva. Still, I'd much rather see Randy vs. Fedor, so let's hope that Sylvia doesn't go and river us all.

Anyone seen the lines for the next UFC? I am thinking about making a Bodog account and start betting on fights (finally).

Anyone seen the lines for the next UFC? I am thinking about making a Bodog account and start betting on fights (finally).

EDIT: I answered my on Q
Where are the values? I am so new to this I still need tutoring. For example how does the Vera/Verdum fight have both the fighters as the fav? Is it b/c of the betting that has occured since the line opened? I think the Starnes/Quarry fight is a good bet of rthe underdog.

UFC 83 - Middleweights - Apr-19-2008 - Bell Centre, Montreal, Quebec, Canada 10pm EST
Both must fight for action. Singles Only. Max $500
Mac Danzig
-550
Mark Bocek
+350

UFC 83 - Middleweights - Apr-19-2008 - Bell Centre, Montreal, Quebec, Canada 10:30pm EST
Both must fight for action. Singles Only. Max $500
Rich Franklin
-350
Travis Lutter
+250

UFC 83 - Middleweights - Apr-19-2008 - Bell Centre, Montreal, Quebec, Canada 10:30pm EST
Both must fight for action. Singles Only. Max $500
Michael Bisping
-330
Charles McCarthy
+260

UFC 83 - Middleweights - Apr-19-2008 - Bell Centre, Montreal, Quebec, Canada 10:30pm EST
Both must fight for action. Singles Only. Max $500
Nathan Quarry
-295
Kalib Starnes
+235

UFC 83 - Welterweights - Apr-19-2008 - Bell Centre, Montreal, Quebec, Canada 11:30pm EST
Both must fight for action. Singles Only. Max $500
Georges St. Pierre
-500
Matt Serra
+325

UFC 84 - Light Heavyweights-Sat, May 24th (11:00pm EST) MGM Grand Garden Arena, Nevada
Both must fight for action. Singles Only. Max $500
Wanderlei Silva
-160
Keith Jardine
+130

UFC 84 - Light Heavyweights-Sat, May 24th (11:00pm EST) MGM Grand Garden Arena, Nevada
Both must fight for action. Singles Only. Max $500
Lyoto Machida
-200
Tito Ortiz
+160

UFC 85 - Light Heavyweights-Sat, Jun 7th (4:00pm EST) O2 Arena, London, England
Both must fight for action. Singles Only. Max $500
Chuck Liddell
-265
Rashad Evans
+205

UFC 85 - Heavyweights-Sat, Jun7th (4:00pm EST) O2 Arena, London, England
Both must fight for action. Singles Only. Max $500
Fabricio Werdum
-110
Brandon Vera
-120

UFC 87 - Heavyweights-Sat, Aug 9th (11:00pm EST) O2 Arena, London, England
Both must fight for action. Singles Only. Max $500
Brock Lesnar
-295
Mark Coleman
+235

UFC 86 - Light Heavyweight Championship - Saturday 9th August (11pm EST)
Both must fight for action. Singles Only. Max $500
Quinton Jackson
-260
Forrest Griffen
+200

double post too