He recently lost to Tim Sylvia and didnt look very good. He fights Fabricio Werdum on the undercard of Liddell/Evans in June.

He should stay LHW
Mir was not 100% by any means there.

Vera has a great kick boxing coach, I hear.

I still cant believe Fedor didnt get KO'd from this slam http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS-2dCpbIOQ...feature=related

http://www.break.com/index/joe-rogan-owns-ufc-heckler.html

rogan owning a UFC fan. lol

Very true. Arlovski is just not a thinking fighter. He has the natural talent, but he just doesn't understand the game the same way people like Couture do. That is why he will never be that good.

A couple new lines are out:

Chuck Liddell -265
Rashad Evans +205

Fabricio Werdum -115
Brandon Vera -115

Lesnar -210 *this is what it was yesterday I just checked and saw its now -250 +190
Coleman +170

Once I saw the Lesnar line I immediately put the max bet in on Bodog. I think there is huge value in that line....apparently people are thinking the same because in one day its already moved to -250.

I also think there is value on Chuck if you look at his record/game v wrestlers.

vera is very talented, but he had an 11 month lay off due to contract problems and problems with his former agent. He has a brown belt in BJJ from Lloyd Irvin, but to be honest, I haven't seen a Irvin guy do that great against higher competition yet as Irvin's program is to kind of speed you through the belt process and that just doesn't work for grappling arts. His lay off really effected him in his fight against Slyvia and I think he should've fought someone else first to get back into the swing of things




it's not fair to say that about him IRT to the slyvia fight. Like I noted with ronny mex, he had a long lay off and was very rusty and didn't look to have the explosion that he has had before the agent problems. He should've fought more of a jobber for his first fight in nearly a year

I concur.
Apparently I got lucky as I went online to Bodog last night (something I do once a month) to get some bets in for UFN 13.
I'm not a big player; but I put a few bucks on Brock at -210 as well.
Also Lyota at -200, and Chuck at -265 and Ken Flo at -220 all seemed like good value to me, in descedind order of confidence.

I don't know him at all bur Mark Bocek at +400 vs Danzig seemed like a decent bet, given his listed credentials. Any info?
I know Danzig will get alot of interest, mostly warranted, some overhyped though.

I got Vera as well fwiw

finally, a few $$$ on Frank Shamrock over Cung Lee -200 (+160 for Cung)

I like both of these bets quite a bit, but I'm curious to see how the line moves for both of them. I actually think ppl might start betting on Tito and we will be able to get a slightly better price. (At least this is what I'm hoping for)

edit: also just wanted to add/gloat how happy I am that I got Brock @ -210. Such great value imo.

Ah, I'm not as savvy
My thinking was that the Lyota line was too good to hold; and caused by the early (less educated) money going to Tito.
But what I did not consider is how long the line had been out; nor had I given real thought to the pattern and timing of the bets from the time the line opens until the fight. Essentially, I assumed the lines are skewed toward the better known fighters and later refect a more realistic outcome.
I have no evidence of this

I think this is often the case. Remember, when the handicappers make a line, their goal is to create odds so an equal amt of $ is bet on each side. As a result, the lines released often doesn't reflect the true odds of either fighter winning or losing. Thats when we take them to value-town ala Silva/Hendo.

I actually think Coleman will win this fight.

I heard Lesnar was paid to lose. ala-coleman style.

Also, I hope to god fedor fights coutour, or anyone from UFC.

I was watching his fights agian, man that guy is insane, his only loss is from a cut that he recieved by a illegal elbow.

28 wins, 1 lame loss. god hes good

Anyone catch the Dream card? Overall, it was a pretty good card, other than the JZ/Aoki fight ending up in a NC. That was really unfortunate and I'm not sure what will happen now as far as the GP Tourny goes. JZ is one of the best at 155 and I'd pick him over anyone other than BJ Penn. The Dida/Alvarez fight was fireworks and great while it lasted, Alvarez looks like he's the real deal. Also nice to see Cro Cop get a W again. What I love about these cards is they generally have their top fighters fighting on them all the time.

Bocek is awesome on the ground and showed much better takedowns his last fight against a good wrestler in Evans. Mac has showed good takedown defense as well and is good on the ground as well. This fight will come down to whether Bocek can take Danzig down to the ground. If it stays standing, Danzig likely wins easy. I think it's pretty good value at +400, because his BJJ is certainly better than Danzig.

I think Cung Le smashes Frank Shamrock. Cung has awesome stand-up obviously and I don't think Shamrock will be able to take him down either. Cung's got wicked takedown defense to compliment his striking. We haven't seen much of Cung on the ground, but I'm sure he's not an idiot and been training his ground very hard.

I got Lauzon beating Florian as well. I think he's too aggressive for Florian and that he's going to outwork and overwhelm him. I think Joe has better wrestling than him and he's got some vicious GnP and I don't expect Florian to catch Joe in a submission. Stand-up is sorta even, but I think it comes down to the fact that Joe can dictate where this fight goes because his wrestling is better.

It's a shame to see Frank fighting past his prime. I like the fact that Cung Le is with AKA. Cung Le is an explosive fighter. A true wizard with his hands and feet. We have zero clue what his ground game is like. So that is a big x factor. I like Shamrock in this fight IF he is healthy.

Lauzon and Florian are a great match. No clue who wins that. I think it is pretty close to even money from my perspective. But the lines will not reflect that come fight time. Although I could be wrong.

I like Lauzon a lot, even more now that he is actually training full time.

Anderson Silva vs Roy Jones Boxing Match?

Also some details on the next TUF show.

sigh

START PAYING YOUR FIGHTERS DANA! This would really suck to put the UFC's most dominant and entertaining champion out of the octagon for the better part of a year with the layoff,training, fight and recovery time. I used to love boxing but now it is pretty much unwatchable to me. Boxers should be coming to the UFC not the other way around. Actually I wouldnt be suprised if one of the rival start up MMA companies puts Tyson in a cage soon.

Shirley you gentlemen can't be serious??? Let me start off by saying I really like Joe Lauzon, but he is being fed to a big bad wolf here. I personally think Kenny Florian might be the most underrated MMA fighter out there. If Joe Lauzon is indeed a better wrestler, it is not by a significant edge to make a difference. I would make a poker comparison of two elite pros tangling HU--just not much EV either way. If Florian can stand Sherk's GNP for 25 minutes I don't think he is losing any sleep over mighty Joe Lauzon's GNP. I actually think Kenny cutting Sherk so bad ended up working against him in that he really couldn't get any traction to get Sherk off of him.

I applaud Joe for taking his shiite serious and training full time with BJ, but I look for Florian to come out trying to make a huge statement in this fight. Jayboogie, I agree with you the vast majority of the time, but you are dead wrong in saying Lauzon is too aggressive for Florian. Florian is the one who takes the fight to his opponents. I am not sure Lauzon is going to be ready for the onslaught that Florian brings.

I have 90% of by bodog BR on Florian at -200 and the other 10% on Alves vs Parysian at +180.

Too bad this article just came out today. I might not have placed my bet....NOT!!!

MMA Bankroll Management

Don't worry, I have an order of deep fried crow on hold just in case.

I think this is the 2nd go around with Anderson issuing that challenge. I wonder how far Dana let's it get before he sicks the lawyers on it. Dana publicly hates on boxing, hates on other MMA orgs, and hated on Pride, but when it comes down to it I don't think he ever lets any of his fighters fight in a cross promotional fight.

We'll just have to wait and see how the fight plays out. I wouldn't say Florian is always aggressive, he was not the aggressor in his fights with Sherk or Din Thomas. He was staying away from Din and not engaging much. He also didn't really win that fight against Din unless you consider finishing someone with a torn ACL from a freak injury a win. Florian's really never beaten anyone as good as Joe legitimately at least. Guys like Stout, Mishima and Robinson are decent fighters, but all have gaping holes at least somewhere in their games. I think Kenny is a pretty good fighter, but I don't think he's beaten anyone all that good. If you look at Joe's resume, I think he's actually fought the better fighters and has fought better fighters than Florian as well imo.

Sherk's GNP is more like LNP, he doesn't do much damage. When's the last time he finished a fight? He gets great positions and does nothing with them. Joe on the other hand has GNP that's vicious and he finishes his opponents unlike Sherk. Joe training with BJ will help him out a lot, Florian's trained with BJ before as well, so they should know his game very well.

I'm looking at it and I need help figuring out where all of these good fighters are.

Win Jason Reinhardt Submission (Rear-Naked Choke) UFC 78 - Validation 11/17/2007 1 1:14
Win Brandon Melendez Submission (Triangle Choke) UFC - TUF 5 Finale 6/23/2007 2 2:09
Win Jens Pulver TKO (Punch) UFC 63 - Hughes vs Penn 9/23/2006 1 0:48
Win Douglas Brown Submission (Armbar) WFL - Real: No Fooling Around 4/1/2006 1
Win Zane Baker KO (Slam) WFL - Real: No Fooling Around 4/1/2006 1
Win Adam Comfort Submission (Achilles Lock) WFL - Real: No Fooling Around 4/1/2006 1
Loss Rafael Assuncao Submission AFC 15 - Absolute Fighting Championships 15 2/18/2006 2
Win Antoine Skinner Submission (Triangle Choke) CZ 12 - Night of Champions 11/5/2005 1 1:00
Loss Ivan Menjivar Submission (Calf Slicer) APEX - Undisputed 9/3/2005 1
Win Tim Honeycutt TKO AFC 13 - Absolute Fighting Championships 13 7/30/2005 1 0:11
Loss Jorge Masvidal TKO AFC 12 - Absolute Fighting Championships 12 4/30/2005 2 3:57

I'll give the win over Reinhardt to you even though he is notorious for fighting incredibly combustible cans to amass that record of his. Pulver? meh. The only other legit guys he has fought he has been submitted or TKO'd by. What the fack is a "calf slicer" anyway? The other guy who I think has a bright future also took him to town (Manny from TUF).



Like I said, I really like Joe Lauzon and wish they wouldn't have given him someone like Florian so soon. I would have liked to have seen him train with BJ for at least a full year before getting that big a step up in competition. I love guys like Joe who are incredibly intelligent and really treat MMA as a chess match instead of a drunken bar room brawl. Unfortunately in this case, he is fighting another guy who is very intelligent as well.

He has wins over Jens Pulver who is still a good fighter and Mike Brown who is very good too. His fights that he's lost were all at 145, against top notch guys and a couple taken on short notice. He's much better at 155 where he doesn't have to dry out so much from making weight. These fights were also when he was only training part-time and they were still very competitive. Menjivar was one of the top fighters at 145 when he fought him. Masvidal and Assuncao are both beasts and you'll be hearing more about them very soon. His fight with Manny, Joe was probably closer to finishing the fight than Manny ever was. Manny just got on top and laid there without doing anything.

Just want to say how much I love you guys for the amount of information you compile on all this stuff. I'd be totally clueless about most MMA without this thread. They really should give a prize to the guy who started it, imo

Agreed. I never post here because you guys are on a whole nother level, but I follow it religiously. Props to all of you smart MMA guys.

I too have become much more educated after spending several months in this thread.

I've always been pretty knowledgeble when it came to UFC fighters, from the very beginning....until present day. But people on here provide excellent stats and history on guys who fight in other organizations. It looks like the UFC is getting a ton of those guys to now fight in UFC, so the added history works in our favor.

I am going through withdrals and still more than 2 weeks before the next live card

It does seem to be feast or famine doesn't it? I don't get Showtime or HDnet so my options are pretty limited.

Dream was a lot better than I thought it would be. If you can stand the Japanese commentators, you should try and download it and watch it. Some really tight jujitsu. Only a couple of horribly mismatched fights. Cro cop looked pretty good but the guy he fought looked half his size?! I hear they brought him in at the last minute...


I just found this. Interesting:

Fight Entertainment Group and HDNet are close to finalizing a deal that would air six Dream events from Japan on the high-definition network in 2008, Mike Kogan, Director of FEGUSA, Inc., informed Sherdog.com via e-mail Friday afternoon.

The deal, Kogan said, would tentatively begin next week with a delayed broadcast of Saturday's Dream debut in Tokyo featuring the opening round of the organization's 154-pound tournament. Future broadcasts, beginning with the April 29 card, would be "near live," he said.

"FEG has been working with HDNet in bringing the Dream 2008 Light and Middleweight GP events to North America," Kogan told Sherdog.com. "And while the deal is not officially signed yet, it is very close to being finalized with most of the important elements already agreed upon."

HDNet Fights CEO Andrew Simon told Sherdog.com late Friday afternoon that a deal between HDNet and FEG has not been signed, and declined to comment further on a potential agreement. Discussions between HDNet and FEG have been ongoing, he confirmed.

Dream executive Keiichi Sasahara noted at the event's final press conference on Friday that a broadcast deal with HDNet, or any other North American partner, was not near being finalized.

I just found out they enabled invites at MMA-Tracker. Let me know if you need one...

Watched it also, very impressed with Hansen's performance. He dominated every aspect of the game over Boku. I'll go back to supporting Crocop when he fights some name opponents, this did nothing for him.

War machine has been added to the undercard of 84. His two fights in TUF were my favorites of the season. What a stacked card.

so on UFC unleashed right now they just aired the Matt Sera vs GSP promo and it said "this saturday" .....not true right? Just making sure so I don't miss it.

Also I'd seen the fight a lot of times, the gsp vs Serra, and now that I watched it again I think that if Serra comes in without feeling his injury, and well trained, he has a legit shot to beat him again. I thought his standup looked awesome in the first fight, checking kicks really well, moving in and backing up quickly, body shots, superman punches and good leg kicks. IMO he looked WAY better standing than Hughes will ever be, and we know his ground game is good enough to deal with GSP. I think GSP is still a favorite, but there is value in betting Serra..

Also, WAR MACHINE in 84?? OMG! against who?

"The Ultimate Fighter 6" cast member John Koppenhaver (5-1 MMA, 1-0 UFC) will face UFC newcomer and Shooto vet Yoshiyuki Yoshida (9-2 MMA, 0-0 UFC) at UFC 84, the organization today announced.

Koppenhaver will return to the octagon for the first time since his stunning third-round TKO of Jared Rollins at The Ultimate Fighter 6 Finale in December. MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com) first reported that he'd compete at UFC 84 earlier this month.

UFC 84 takes place May 24 at the MGM Grand Garden in Las Vegas, Nev. UFC lightweight champ B.J. Penn meets former champ Sean Sherk in the night's main event.

Koppenhaver joined "The Ultimate Fighter 6" as a replacement for an injured Roman Mitichyan. In a bloody bout that appeared to have eventual show runner-up Tommy Speer on the verge of tapping, Koppenhaver suffered a unanimous-decision loss in the show's opening round and was knocked out of the competition.

Just prior to the bout, Koppenhaver said it might be his last fight ever in MMA. However, in an interview with MMAjunkie.com just after the episode aired, the fighter said it was just his usual pre-fighter jitters.

He had a triumphant return at the show's live finale and earned Fight of the Night and Knockout of the Night bonuses with his victory.

Koppenhaver was recently sentenced to three years probation, was been forced to pay $2,300 restitution, and had to serve 30 days of community service stemming from a September arrest. In December Koppenhaver pleaded guilty to felony assault for choking and punching a man outside his San Diego training center, but the judge decided to reduce the charge to a misdemeanor -- partially at the urging of the case's victim, who said he didn't want to ruin Koppenhaver's UFC career.

With a fresh start, he'll now take on Yoshida, who signed with the UFC back in January.

Yoshida has competed primarily for Cage Force and Shooto, and now owns an eight-fight win streak (with six of the victories coming by way of knockout). The ground-and-pound fighter was the first-ever welterweight tournament winner for the Japanese-based Cage Force organization.

In addition to Koppenhaver vs. Yoshida, UFC.com today confirmed our previously reported UFC 84 fight between Jason Tan and Dong Hyun Kim.

Sucks that this one wont make the tv unless something spectacular happens and they use it as filler. That fight with Rollins is one of the best ive seen in the past year.

so... Anyone see EliteXC tonight? As far as I know it was live.

Stupid elbows to back of head, guy "can;t continue"
I could see it either way, he certainly had motive to quit, the Muay Tai guy took all he could give and seemed like a force on his feet.
I know nothing about the fighters, tbh.

Denny vs Malipet (sp)

Denny is a journeyman and Malaipet is a muay thai fighter doing some MMA...

Saturday night on Showtime: Frank Shamrock vs Cung Le. I am not sure Shamrock can take this guy.

Toe to Toe with Cung Le

I'm pretty excited to see. Mostly to see if Cung Le can actually fight. My guess is this hits the mat and it will be over very quickly, Shamrock via rear naked choke at 3:50 of the 1st. I'm pretty sure Shamrock won't be brave enough to stand.

This is one of the reasons I have Showtime instead of Skinemax.

Is there a pin hold where a guy squats over the other guys face and farts? If not, then there should be...

PS: I like tits

On a related topic, what the hell is with these guys that totally lose their center of gravity when throwing roundhouse kicks? Don't they know it's virtual smackdown if their opponent works out the timing and figures out an appropriate counter? Some messy technique will find you the floor in a hurry.

Frank Shamrock vs. Cung Le
Joey Villasenor vs. Ryan Jensen
Jesse Jones vs. Jesse Gillespie
Nick Diaz vs. Jae Suk Lim
Gilbert Melendez vs. Gabe Lemley
Luke Stewart vs. Tiki Ghosn
Mike Pyle vs. Wayne Cole
Darren Uyenoyama vs. Anthony Figueroa
Drew Fickett vs. Jae Suk Lim

Sounds like Diaz is out cuz he uses medical marijuana.... That would have been a good fight. Looks like Drew Fickett is filling in.

Holy Crap! Just found out about this fight! Faber is an ANIMAL!

The wait is over as the WEC finally confirmed the date for arguably its biggest fight ever.

Urijah “The California Kid” Faber (20-1-0) will defend his featherweight title against MMA legend and former UFC lightweight champion, Jens “Little Evil” Pulver (22-8-1), at the Arco Arena in Sacramento, Calif., on June 1.

Although Faber is regarded as one of the top 145-pounders in the world, Pulver is undefeated in the division (8-0), submitting Cub Swanson in 31 seconds during his WEC debut back in December 2007.

Miguel Torres (33-1-0), fresh off a dominating performance against Chase Beebe to earn the 135-pound strap, will be on the card as well. He will make his first WEC bantamweight title defense against Mexican slugger Manny Tapia (10-0-1), who is coming off a split decision victory over Antonio Banuelos at WEC 32.

WEC 34: “Faber vs. Pulver” will air at 9 p.m. ET on Versus.

This should be one the biggest nights in the short history of the WEC, and it’s even a bigger plus for it to take place live on Versus. It’s hard to beat watching an MMA legend go against the future of the sport on free TV, right?

Great KO in the first fight!!!! Smoking Joe made it look easy.

Event tonight?

Where can I see it online? I know there's somewhere right? I have TVU, but it doesn't seem to be on there.

It was on Showtime. AWESOME main event. Watch the replay or get it on You Tube. WOW!!!!

My first time watching Elitexc and well...meh. The main event was good but I dont think both of those guys could even come close in the UFC 185. The real advantage the UFC has going forward is the number of elite fighters they have. Any upstart can throw a pile of cash at 2 fighters to have a main event but the top to bottom cards the UFC can put out will be superior for long time going forward. Also hate the rule of no elbowing or forearms on the ground, deffinatly takes away from the ground and pound(see War Machine/Rollins)

I thought that the Cung Le/Frank Shamrock fight was highly entertaining. I was on edge, didn't know where the fight was going to go and it was exciting. I just want to be entertained and see a good fight and not watch guys gas out after 4 minutes and it delivered. I'm not a UFC snob. I realize that they have the majority of the best fighters, but to just dismiss every other fighter by saying they couldn't compete would just be wrong IMO.