Can't remember any reads on this one. Villain is a fairly good player, though.

Texas Hold'em $10-$10 NL (real money), #1,474,620,898

Seat 4: OtisTP ($2709 in chips)
Seat 5: 2L84U2WN ($1,000 in chips)
Seat 6: lent53 ($2,038 in chips)
Seat 8: AFCWanda ($1,504 in chips)
Seat 10: supnagga ($865 in chips)

ANTES/BLINDS
OtisTP posts blind ($5), 2L84U2WN posts blind ($10).

***OtisTP dealt Kc10c****

PRE-FLOP
lent53 bets $33, AFCWanda folds, supnagga folds, OtisTP calls $28, 2L84U2WN folds.

FLOP [board cards 6C,KD,QC ]
OtisTP checks, lent53 checks.

TURN [board cards 6C,KD,QC,AS ]
OtisTP checks, lent53 bets $33, OtisTP calls $33.

RIVER [board cards 6C,KD,QC,AS,AC ]
OtisTP checks, lent53 bets $66, OtisTP...???

Personally i dont like playing these kind of hands in HU pots OOP and there was a detailed discussion about it in another thread.

However you have flopped quite big here and i understand you checked the flop with the intention of cring and that didn't work. I think you played the hand very well and you have a call on the river. He has bet half the pot which does seem a little weak, however i don't see much value in raising unless you would also cr here as a bluff some of the time. if the villian hqas no evidence that you are capable of pulling off such a move then he mucks AJ pretty quickly to your raise here. Now, i cant put him on a worse flush because he would have bet the flop with it, and not the turn so we need to put him on a AQ-AJ type hand and although we beat almost everything he could have except AQ, there is no other hands he has that will pay us off. All in all i call here and excpect to win the pot most of the time.

This also illustrates why i dont like playing these hands OOP. We have no control over the pot, we lose the max when behind and win the minimum when we are ahead. position is a powerful thing people.

If the villian is decent there can't be a lot of value to raising here. Seems like an easycall to me....

The villian raise followed by the check on the flop has me kind of nervous. It could be a set which means the villian just filled up, or it could be his AJ just missed.

hmmmm yeah I still just call, you have been playing the flush draw like the flush draw so he must realize you hit it and is value betting you on the river. I don't know if I can fold but I bet you are beat, I tend to call these just so people know they can't bluff the river against me.


LOL I could be way off, but if I am I bet someone tells me.

What if we hit this flush on a board like:

A-A-K-8-3

Do we raise then?

I'd personally raise in a vacuum.

You have played the hand extremely passive.

I'd raise to $140-150ish and fold to a re-raise.

I don't think its an automatic fold of AJ at $10NL.

JT is also a possibility.

I don't feel like going in to %'s of hands and such, but I feel given how the hand unfolded that I'd try to get maximum value for this hand by putting in a smallish raise on the river.

This is what I originally wrote about this hand:

"Texas Hold'em $10-$10 NL (real money), #1,474,620,898

Seat 4: OtisTP ($2709 in chips)
Seat 5: 2L84U2WN ($1,000 in chips)
Seat 6: lent53 ($2,038 in chips)
Seat 8: AFCWanda ($1,504 in chips)
Seat 10: supnagga ($865 in chips)

ANTES/BLINDS
OtisTP posts blind ($5), 2L84U2WN posts blind ($10).

***OtisTP dealt Kc10c****

PRE-FLOP
lent53 bets $33, AFCWanda folds, supnagga folds, OtisTP calls $28, 2L84U2WN folds.

FLOP [board cards 6C,KD,QC ]
OtisTP checks, lent53 checks.

TURN [board cards 6C,KD,QC,AS ]
OtisTP checks, lent53 bets $33, OtisTP calls $33.

RIVER [board cards 6C,KD,QC,AS,AC ]
OtisTP checks, lent53 bets $66, OtisTP...???"

"I called the bet and he showed A4. In retrospect, I need to raise for value here. The only hands I can really fear here are KK and QQ. I would think AK or AQ would have bet the flop trying to take the pot right there. A6 might play this the same way Lent did, but in retrospect, it's a definite raise."

Looking back, I can't agree with what I wrote here. If I raise, I'm never calling a re-raise, meaning I could fold the best hand if he comes over the top. Does anyone think my logic above is flawed?

Your logic is fine and i think raising for value is not a good idea here as i explained above. When raising for value, we need to identify hands that will give us value and in this situation there is not enough of them to warrant a raise. Of course, there may be an argument for leading the river for 90 or so for value, in which case you would be called by a wider range of hands than if you check raise. For example Aj, lower flushes and straights may decide to call this bet because they assume that you are stealing this pot some of the time. I am not sure what the best line would be as it really depepnds on the villian and your history, however as played i maintain that check raising is a bad idea.

Using the same logic that he calls me with a wider range on the river, does he raise with a wider range on the river when I lead into him?

Bet the flop.

River is an insta-call because it's very difficult to put him on many hands that he would open-up for in EP and value-bet the river with when a straight draw and a flush draw are on the board. If he was capable of raising it up with J9 or rag A, I would've bumped it to $150 and felt fine about folding to a reraise.

It's 5 handed. The majority of people at those limits are very capable of raising with J9 or A-rag from any position.

Although I came to this thread a little late and saw the result of the hand, I still think that a raise is in order.

If he has AK, AQ, KK or QQ (which are the only hands I'd really worry about BTW) then you're gonna get reraised on the river and you can safely fold.

I think you need to raise because:

1. You have done nothing but check to him the whole hand, including the river where you make your flush.
2. His bet is too small not to raise (1/3 of the pot)
3. On a flop that draw heavy, he's probably betting anything that he hit it with, including KK and QQ
4. The hand reeks so badly of Ax becuase of the way he played it
5. If he does have Ax, or the straight, he's certainly betting for value after you check the river to him
6. Because of the way you've played the hand, you'll probably get called when you raise the river by a much wider range than you would have if you had taken a different angle.

A call isn't the biggest mistake becuase you ensure your showdown, but for his tiny little river bet after you checked to him, I think you need to raise.

With the exception of C-Betting the flop, I'd have taken a very similar line to his and I'd definitely bet the river if I were him.

I think that this board it's easier and often more correct to just call when you hit the flush. His hand is defined in the thread by his check on the flop with 2 broadway cards and 2 clubs. Checking a real hand there is suicide, so he likely doesn't have one.

I don't like chasing flushes on board that come AAx where the x is a broadway card. I'm drawing dead too often.

Yeah, I agree with your last statement. When I asked about A-A-K-8-3, I was putting them in order of value, not the order they appear on the board. I guess I'm asking if I replace the Q in the original post with an 8 or a 3 or whatever, is it a definite raise on the river? I think so.

Of course, in this specific hand, we get an A-A-K-8-4 board and my raise on the river doesn't look so hot.

No i dont think so. I think that if raised when you lead you are behind 95% of the time. There is no hand that you beat that he could be raising for value once you lead into him on the river. I think this way you gain some money from AT and AJ and set have set the price at 2/3 pot instead of his 1/2 pot bet. He is never ever raising you with AJ once you bet into him. If a hand you beat raises you on the river he would not be doing it for value, he would be raising as a bluff and on this board he would need some big balls to try to bluff you after your lead. I can safely fold my nut flush here if raised after i lead river and i would be certain that i folded a losing hand.

He calls with a much wider range than he would call your cr with and he does not raise you with a wider range because he is just as scared of this board as you are.

I keep going back and forth on whether or not raising or calling is the right move here. Obviously you don't want to get reraised by a hand you're beating and find a way to fold, but the only hand that beats you and plays it as passively as the villian did is A6. The odds of him having that are slim enough to warrant a raise. Either way, there's nothing horribly wrong with flat calling the river bet.