This one was weird because the villain played it almost exactly like a draw that missed, but I don't really see the board texture cooperating with that theory. This a junk two-pair/tricky set often enough for a fold on the river? If I'm not going to fold the river, raise?


Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
8 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $54
UTG+1: $81.85
MP1: $99.80
MP2: $66.60
Hero: $70
Button: $130.40
SB: $27.80
BB: $127.50

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is CO with
2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero (poster) checks, Button calls, SB folds, BB (poster) checks.

Flop: ($5.5, 5 players)
BB checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets $3 , Button folds, BB calls, 2 folds.

Turn: ($11.5, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $7, BB calls.

River: ($25.5, 2 players)
BB bets $18, Hero ?.

Results:
Final pot: $61.5

SeaWasp says fold, I guarantee it.

I don't like too much about this hand DS. First off I don't like the check pf even though you posted. I typically don't buy into a game until my blinds so that I can watch the table for a few hands. Your in position with 2 limpers and a descent hand and no table image. I raise pf.

Since you didn't raise pf I simply C/F the flop basically every time. You haven't defined anything and ur in for a buck so IMO no need to throw chips away.

As played I'm fine with betting the turn since you bet the flop. I really don't know what ur trying to rep. but you don't really know how weak/tight the table may be. As played the river is a call even though I'm pretty sure BB is on 2 pair. Potentially QJ. I don't think I would raise the river here too often.

I agree with Krup.

Your play seems very odd. If you're going to post from the CO, that's fine. If you pick up a good (but vulnerable) hand with 2 limpers in front, why are you not raising?

Once the flop comes with 5 players, I don't think you should be trying to bluff the other 4 out of the pot. Someone is bound to have something, you've invested nothing and you're only drawing to overcards.

The turn bet is what doesn't make sense to me on your part. He called on the flop and the only draw available is the 45 OESD. Did you bet thinking he'd fold a Jack to your continued aggression? I think that the turn is a clear check and call a reasonable bet if your hand improves and fold if it does not.

As played, you probably need to go ahead and call the river. Getting over 2-1 with TPTK isn't the end of the world. You'll probably be shown 2 pair but you've put yourself in a weird position. There is no value in raising since it's not likely he's gonna fold 2 pair and if he only had 1 pair anyway, your AQ is now good.

Good points about needing to raise preflop; I think just checking and watching the hand play out is a fine way to get a good read on the table too.

I do have good position though...even if this was my 100th hand at the table, pf raise or not, I'm still betting this flop in my position with AQ. I'm definitely repping some kind of J here I think.

The c/c of the big stack makes me think he was calling with middle pair or something, hoping to get me off a steal..didn't think the turn necessarily helped him so I bet again.


What can we put him on with his river lead? I think the only two reasonable hands is a super-passive QJ or a 9-10 that he floated on the flop. Otherwise, I think I hear from any hand that beats AQ by the turn.

Thoughts?

You are right donk slayer. FOLD. The only draw out there that he could have is 45 and he can't really think that you would fold what you a representing (a strong jack) to his well sized value bet. In a limped pot like this he can have any 2 pairs you like and i am not even sure why this hand has bothered you as it is quite standard. I appreciate your trying to steal this pot on the first 2 streets and that's fine however when he donks out like that on a board where he clearly isn't drawing you can fold safe in the knowledge that he has at least top pair beat.

Of course raising is an option here if you think villian can fold 2 raggy pairs. However this would be quite rare at this level and especially on this board where if he was to fold 2 pair he really needs to put you on a set. Also many times he will have the set you are trying to represent.

In summary it's a pretty easy fold given the situation and again, i am not too sure why you thought this was a tough spot. Do you have history with villian? does donk out like this alot? I mean with some information like that the hand may warrant further consideration however on the surface of it all this does seem quite standard.

As far as what we put him on he has 9T here almost never. You are looking at a pair or set type hand and i do aggree with you that you would have heard from a set on the turn. I really think he has air here very rarely, if at all which doesnt leave many hands he could have that you beat.

I can't make this call and feel that i am making a profitable play unless i have some information on the player in question and it seems that we dont have that in this spot so i think your only play is folding buddy.

I know we could've run up against a weird Qx two pair as well, it's possible.

This hand is kind of in a vacuum though because it's my first at the table; I have no reads and no one has a read on me. I repped a J throughout the hand, and really think that my turn bet would've scared off any 2x or 7x hand that was trying to look me up. Only a 9-10 and QJ really get there good enough for a lead...but if the villain puts me on a semi-weak J ( I didn't raise) the Q could be a good bluff card too, although again, it's hard to put him on anything.

You'll get weirded out when I spill what he had.

My first thought was fold but now I'm sort of talking myself into this one.. I think he may have had something like kq of hearts. He called on the flop with two overs and a backdoor. Called the turn for the flush but spiked a river queen and thought it had to be good.

Other than that something like q6 or q3 of hearts. I definitely think he had a flush draw on the turn tho.

As played, you gotta call the river.

As for always betting in that spot, I'm not a fan of it. It's always a huge mistake that people make when they just limp in with a "big" hand like AK or AQ, miss the flop and then spend a lot of money trying to buy the pot from someone whose hand you know nothing about.

I'm not really knocking your aggressiveness, which is a great trait, but understand that in a 5 way pot, AQ is a piece of garbage after you miss the flop. Once you are called on the flop, you should check the turn and be done unless you improve or unless you know something about the Villain that leads you to stay in the hand.

It's also unlikely that he's floating with anything less than 2nd pair when he is out of position. Even 2nd pair should've folded on the flop because if you're repping anything, it's Jx. If he's calling, I'd say it's becuase he thinks he can beat Jx or he's drawing to a better hand with the 45 straight draw.

Still, pay the man on the river since you hit your Q.

Just out of curiosity, what was the result?

I tanked about as long as I could and then called.

Villain showed 7s5s. "I had a gutshot on the flop and an open-ended draw on the turn. I can't believe it took you so long to call on the river after you hit your hand, lol."

Riiiight.

With the read that the villian SUCKS AT POKER, then I think we can safely make this call. Against good players, I think we're very rarely ahead. Meh.

Villain has watched too much Jamie Gold on HSP

I have nothing to add to this thread except, "amen".

So we now know villian is a donkey. Make a note of it for next time as this gus is a candidate for some very thin calls by us on the river. Of course i still maintain that the call will not show a profit in the long run against an unknown.