Sup guys, I wanted to post a hand from my Tunica trip last night and get some feedback.

The table was pretty loose and I had been there about 3 hours and built my $200 stack steadily up to $575

Hand comes up where there are 6 limpers for $2 and I pick up black kings in the BB and raise it $20 to $22.

Folds around to the table drunk donk that has already lost about $600 who ofcourse calls the $20 and then the table big stack who calls the $20. My read on this guy was he was a good player who was capable of making plays, but for the most part a pretty solid poker player. He had about $800 in front of him.

Flop comes down J 6 7

First to act I bet $50 into the $74 pot.

Drunk guy instacalls, big stack calls.

Turn 3

I bet $100 into $224 attempting to get out anyone who was on straight draw or now possible heart draw.

Drunk guy folds, big stack calls.

River comes 3

I make $100 value bet into $424 thinking 2 pair may have been counterfeited and no draws got there unless had 45 and flopped open ended and hit when the 3 came

Drunk guy folds and big stack goes all in and has me covered, I have $303 left in front of me.

I go into the tank for a good 3 - 5 minutes and half surprised no one called the clock on me.

The guy limped preflop, called $20, smooth calls flop bet, smooth calls turn bet, pushes the river. In my mind he had to have hit a set of 6s, 7s, or Js on the flop and he trapped me hard.

I have $303 to call to win $1230.

What do you do ............. ?

i call


Live 1/2 NL 200 max is one of the hardest games to play.


I like the size of the flop bet, but the turn is where you have to define and protect your hand a little better.

shave my moustache


oh...and then i call

Your bet looks real weak, especially since the straight card showed up. The bad news, is that he plays a small set, or a rivered straight, the same way.

You're getting a huge price(4-1). I probably call and shake my head when he shows me some 54 nonsense.

I'd bet more on the flop, and wouldn't hate over-betting(pushing) the turn, for future reference.

shit my pants and then call

What they said.


And....I'm sure this is wrong....but after making that weakish turn bet, and getting the call.....I probably push on the river....put the decision to him instead of letting him reraise you and putting the decision on you. The river bet was super weak.....maybe he's made a set or str8 - yes, but maybe he's got AJ or QQ or maybe he's just outplaying you, since the turn and river bets were weak. If I'm gonna call anyway....then I'd rather play it this way. But then again, ISAP.

I really doubt a good player's limping with QQ or AJ pf.

I don't know what we're beating here beside a bluff. QJ, AJ, or KJ raises the flop or turn presumably, maybe even pf. Despite the good odds I fold it. A good player's not bloating the pot with a hand on the turn that's behind KK.

I don't hate checking the turn and calling down, to keep the pot small out of positon. Most of the value from this hand apparently comes from the drunk dude tossing money into the pot with nothing.

I know I'd want to protect my hand, but, I really hate playing a big pot out of position with an overpair, and I think you can make more money in the long run by keeping the idiot in the hand.

Tough spot though.

I don't think you beat a whole hell of a lot, but, I don't think you need to, for the price you're getting. If you check the river you can easily fold, I think.

Hero is OOP, not Villain.

Yeah I edited my post. Just realized he was in the BB.

Good feedback. I really put the guy on a set and felt I was beat.

After about 5 minutes two things went through my head. The dude instapushed on the river and soon as I bet $100 he pretty much beat me to the pot saying all in. A felt a novice player may do that (Phil Hellmouth style), but this guy was a good player so I thought me may milk it a bit more.

The fact I was getting 4:1 was the ultimate reason I went ahead and made the call. I told the guy I KNOW I am beat, but I have too much money in the pot and either you have a monster or you have nothing.

The guy flips up 58 of hearts for busted OESD and picked up flush draw on the turn. He says Good Call and I rake the $1230 pot. I know I am beat 9/10 times there, but I guess it worked out this time.

I liked my turn bet, but can see the points for a bigger bet. My whole thinking was just go give bad odds to straight and flush draws.

The river bet was super weak I know, but I honestly thought I had the pot won, even if the guy had 2 pair he got counterfeited so I just threw in what I thought was a value bet that the guy may be able to call if he had a hand like JA or QQ.

You picked up on the tell, ya just didn't register it.

His instapush is a classic example of, 'strong when weak, weak when strong'.

Good call, though.

Nice call.

Your reasoning for the size of your bet on the turn was completely off..you need to bet at least $175 on the turn to do what you were aiming to do. The weak, weak river bet was begging to get raised. Glad it worked out well though.

One thing we talk about when talking about betting strat is how it makes a hand easier to play later...not just about value, etc. Betting more on the turn and river helps define your hand AND theirs, and keeps the move-making down.

You pwned that guy.

Good point. I should have re-read the hand....I was focusing on the post-flop play and forgetting that the guy limped pre. Although I think a limper with AJ is possible, as well as KJ and QJ. So my other scenario of the guy trying to outplay him, after weakish turn bet and super weak river bet, was apparently the case.

The problem is that for the range Chicken puts him on our opponent's river decision is really easy if we push. If he missed, then he folds. If he has a boat, then he calls.

I agree that it's a little tougher for him if he has AJ or QQ and then has to decide if our hero is overplaying AK or 88 for some reason.

The villain should have made a move on the turn if he was going to make one, in my opinion. He waited until the hero was pot-committed to bluff.

I agree with what your saying Dave. If he has the goods, then his decision is clear and we lose. But, if we are going to call his reraise anyway....then the push accomplishes avoiding what happened....the opportunity for the villian to try to push us off the hand. Chicken considered folding. I guess saying that putting the decision to the villian was wrong....if he has us beat, then he's calling, and if he has AJ or KJ, etc, then we want him to call. I just didn't like the weakish turn bet, and really really didn't like the weak river bet. I guess more what I was saying was to avoid putting ourselves in the position to have to make the kind of decision that Chicken had to make. But.....it DID work out for him, in that he picked up an extra $300. This is why I don't play much NL cash games. LOL. I have a lot to learn.

When playing NL you need to ask yourself; Are you the bunny or the balloon?

Well, since I AM the bunny, I need to work on BEING the bunny.


BE THE BUNNY.







p.s. I think I may have found a new avatar.

If villain makes a move on the turn I have a whole different set of problems. If I make that same $100 turn bet and villain pushes I probably have to let it go. I would probably have been more inclined to call though thinking villain had a flush draw, straight draw, etc and would villain really push the nuts, 2nd nuts here? Having less money in the pot and less odds would have made that a totally tough decision that I am not sure how I would have responded.



Dave, we gonna play some $1/$2 NL tomorrow at your club in Indy or maybe play a lil home game @ your house?

Pushing did not even cross my mind actually. I guess I was greedy trying to extract another $100 value out of the hand. If I push and he folds I miss out on money?

Drunk guy folded on the turn, right?

We'll be 5-handed if Conner and Raistlin play.

Hmm, maybe we'll seek out other local action.

ah yea, typo. Drunk guy folded on the turn. Was HU going into river.

Hahahha.

I have no reservations about taking money from your kids so whatever you all want to do.

Damn, I'd drive down but I have to work tomorrow.

You shark you.

Call in sick?



Oh, and my read on the villian was the same as Chicken, but I would add that he played a lot of hands preflop, called raises with marginal hands. He also overbet the pot preflop on a number of occasions, but that may have been because he knew the drunk guy would call. Post flop, the villian seemed pretty skilled.

I think Scott will probably come. Mary might too, but she won't play.

I also call, and am probably disgusted when he turns over his set.

I think if you bet more on the turn (or check) your subsequent decisions are much easier.

I hate your value bet on the end. Given the action I don't think an overpair is strong enough to value-bet.

Your turn bet, and river value-bet scream of weakness. He may just be trying to take it away from you w/ an AJack type hand, but I'm pretty lost in the hand. I think I gotta pay this off though.

what this guy said.

Bet more on turn, bet more on river for value. And since you didnt, id insta ****ing call getting those odds. Thats a sick river card for you man. Since hes a retard drunk, id bet more on river for value unless you had a strong read that he's on a draw, then obv. check call. But also if you want you can mix it up and check flop. But with opponents descriptions id bet bet bet every street.

I think the best thing to do is check the river.. to either induce a bluff or keep the pot small when it seems you def may be trapped.

You beat AJ and QQ and lose to everything else in his range. I doubt he is pushing AJ here after your play says you have an overpair to the board. Villian must know you have AA or KK and he has still pushed. You are behind here most of the time and even at the odds the pot is laying you i would be folding here.

The turn and the river bets are really small (read weak) relatively speaking. I think he is bluffing more then we think.

QFT, especially the way you played leading to the river.

Of course if he shoves the river after you checked, you're now put to a real decision as you have less money in the pot to justify the call.

I actually like the river if the point's to induce a bluff. You've played the hand super-weak and are representing a much worse hand than your actual holding. Typically though, I'd bet close to the size of the pot on the flop (maybe $60) and then at least 2/3 of the pot on the turn.

overall very tought hand to play.

i did read the results so obv. i am biased. You should know that he had either a low PP or some type of connectors/suited cards for drawign hand. When a good player makes a call like that preflop he is looking to bust you with a big hand. His call on turn IMO shows a draw. He KNOWS you have a big pair, if he has a big hand he would prob push thinking youd have to call off the rest of your chips. Unless you think the river helped him (and i dont see how it could have) i would check/call tryign to induce a bluff. I dont see a hand here where a good player will call preflop then value call the river. (good players would have raised AJ preflop or flop, folded other hands like QJ/KJ/etc to your raise i think). The only hand I could see is 67, where he should have raised you at somepoint. 58 does make perfect sense here. 45 also could, but i see him pushing turn, expecting a call from QQ/AA/KK...66 or 77 i think raises your 50$ flop bet, and fore sure your 100$ turn bet...

my .02