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Full Version: Tough Decision On Turn After Weak (careful?) Flop Play
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timwakefield
Both from the $3 rebuy on Stars a few nights ago.


HAND #1



PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t1200 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

BB (t68790)
UTG (t54545)
UTG+1 (t71763)
MP1 (t19934)
MP2 (t56365)
Hero (t72712)
CO (t20590)
Button (t30103)
SB (t16414)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with , .
2 folds, MP2 raises to t2400, Hero calls t2400, 2 folds, BB calls t1800, UTG calls t1200.

Flop: (t8325) , , (5 players)
BB checks, UTG bets t2400, MP2 raises to t4800, Hero calls t4800, BB folds, UTG calls t2400.

Turn: (t22725) (4 players)
UTG checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets t7200, UTG raises to t47270, MP2 folds, Hero


At this point I think we're still before the money, I'm one of the big stacks at the table, and have a bit more than double the average I think. I didn't raise on the flop, figuring I'd wait and see what the turn brought. Turn brought the 8 which definitely isn't a scare card, but the other big stack at the table check-raises me all-in, representing a straight or a better set maybe. How would you play in on the flop and on the turn?








HAND #2



PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t60000 (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

BB (t1128894)
UTG (t1572012)
MP1 (t559688)
Hero (t626054)
CO (t524996)
Button (t1745926)
SB (t2218338)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with , .
2 folds, Hero raises to t160000, 2 folds, SB calls t130000, BB calls t100000.

Flop: (t408000) , , (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (t408000) (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets t300000




About 20 players left, I'm one of the short stacks. I didn't bet the flop because I figured if I were one of my 2 opponents and I flopped out an ace, I'd check and let the shortstack (me in this case) push all-in. Also, I figured I had position and I'd just let a K fall on the turn for an easy win smile.gif. How would you play it on all streets? I'd be surprised if anybody says not to get it in on the turn here, but what do you think about the earlier streets as well? Just push PF? Looking at it on paper (as it were) that's how it looks to me now, but at the time I obviously decided on a ~2.5x raise.
mk
i like how you played the first hand, and i would fold to the shove. you gave away the strength of your hand on the flop when you check/called a bet and a raise. when i see someone do that on the flop, i tend to give him credit for v strong hand. this is a 3r, though, so these mouth breathers are probably only looking at the cards in front of them...but still. the only hands i can see taking the line that he did that you beat here are 33, 66 or possibly a two pair hand like 54s, but that's pretty unlikely. a horrifically misplayed big pair is probably more likely than two pair.

on the second hand, i would probably move in pre, but since you didn't, i like the way you played it fine, assuming you moved in on the turn.
copernicus
Second hand is fine.

First hand I would re-raised the flop. There are too many runners in this hand to slowplay. You dont want to give the BB in particular, who may have caught a small piece of that flop, a chance to complete a straight. You'll get enough action from somebody to make the set payoff if it holds up. (I havent seen a set in so long, thanks for the pictures to remind me of what one looks like!). I would call the big turn bet.

there are a lot of hands that we beat that could play this way, in particular middle-overpairs that wanted to see a safe turn card before committing a lot of chips (low cards and high cards are scary to 77-JJ here. Of course one of those is a set hand also now). Also Ah/big heart feels a lot better about his hand after the turn and may semi-bluff this thinking hes got 15 outs.

The bad hands of A2, and 67(suited) are in play, 62 I would have a hard time believing. 33 and 55 also alive.

So we have A2, 67s, 55, and 88 that we are WB too, or 26 hands. Weve got 10 redraw cards to the straights, 1 to to the sets. So say we still have 20% chance to win if we are behing.
AKh, AQh, AJh, 48 hands, we are 2:1 favorites over
33, 99-JJ, 21 hands, call them 100% winners. 77 has 6 outs so were about 90% against them.

so overall we are above 3:1 to win this hand. I may have missed some but I cant believe it could be enough to turn us into a dog that doesnt have calling odds.
Yahkin
Hand 1: I really don't like the turn bet. 7200 into 23k? What are we representing? If I'm UTG I'm seeing a blocker bet from someone on a draw. I think his push range is very wide here(TPTK, overpair, monster draw, or even a semi-bluff with high overs) and I've gotta make the call.

Hand 2: Push PF. Push the flop. Re-Raise the turn all in.
pokerfan1080
Hand 1: I think we need to re-raise the flop. Make the unmade draws pay to get there if they choose to chase. As played, the only hands we are concerned about are 55, 88 and 67s, I think I still make the call though.

Hand 2: I like the preflop raise. Need to throw out a bet on the flop to see where you are. Turn, push.
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