Absolute Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $3/$6
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with K J
2 folds, Hero raises, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: 9 2 K (8SB, 4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, Button folds, SB calls, BB raises, Hero 3-bets, SB folds, BB caps, Hero calls.

Turn: 3 (8.5BB, 2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

River: 6 (10.5BB, 2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: 12.5BB

Standard?

Villain in particular is unknown, so how do we approach situations like this?

I feel as if I'm just getting worked at SH, and I know I'm calling down light way too much, not necessarily this example, but any pair, Ax in blind battles, etc.

I pretty much play this the same, especially against an unknown.

Completely standard. I'd play it this way about 98% of the time.

standarddddddddddddddddddddddddd

BB check-raised two opponents on the flop.
With his relative position to the PFR, the check raise was not done to thin the field.
It was done with the intent of maximizing value on this hand.

We have a mediocre Top Pair.
It is very likely that Villain's check-raise signifies more than this.
We are almost always behind here, imo.

The board is very draw-lite.
There is only 1 possible overcard to our Kings.
We are not terribly likely to get outdrawn if we are indeed still ahead.

My strong belief that we are behind outweighs my need to knock SB out.
Thus I only call the flop check-raise.
And call down from there.


--CM

CM, you don't think that c/r is a flush draw a lot of the time? Or at least some time...

He might have a strong draw, like A9 of hearts, which gives him mid pair with nut flush draw. Capping the flop would probably work with this type of hand. But if he did have this hand, then you're still ahead. The only thing I can think of that beats you is a higher kicker or flopped set.

It's easy to get results-oriented after seeing that villian capped. However, based solely on the flop C/R, what do we think villian has? Villian likely has a pair. It could be bottom pair, middle pair, top pair, or a pocket pair somewhere in between. We have TPGK, so the only pairs that beat us are AA, AK, and KQ. Of those hands, two would absolutely 3-bet preflop, and the KQ would 3-bet a fair amount of the time as well. As such, we're only behind two pair, a set, or an occasional KQ.

Now, most villians won't even call the BB with 92 or K2, and most will 3-bet KK and a lot of the time 99. That leaves the hands that beat us as K9, 22, KQ (sometimes) and 99 (sometimes). Meanwhile, we're ahead of A2, 33, 44, 55, 66, 77, 88, 69, 79, 89, T9, J9, Q9, A9, K7, K8, and KT. Not to mention heart draws which will C/R us quite a bit of the time as well. Add in the SB that called 1 bet (possibly with a weak draw) and I'd say that strongly argues in favor of a three-bet for value. Wouldn't you?

I don't understand why Villain would check-raise 2 opponents with bottom or middle pair in a situation that obviously will not fold anyone.
That seems horribly foolish of him.

Then again, we do play against foolish opponents.
So if your read is that Villain is a maniac, then I suppose you can value-3bet everything.
But against a standard player, I don't think we can put him on 2nd or 3rd pair here.




Yeah, it could be.
But raising with the flush draw is not as common when Villain is out of position.
Because he must be doing so only for value- rather than for a free card play.

This would be one of the few hands where the check-raise-for-value makes a lot of sense.

But I don't think we are ahead enough of the time against Villain's probable range (based on the check-raise-for-value) to warrant being able to 3bet for value ourselves.

Now to be clear,
if the check raise came from the sb, I am very likely 3betting with you!

Just my thoughts...

--CM