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Scott3705
Posting a few hands. Have not been playing poker at all for last 3 months and extremely rusty.

Me: $250
V1: $130.
4 orbits in so no real read.

3 limpers to V1 on button who raises to $22. Preflop bet is higher than table norm and his two previous preflop bets.
I call w/ AK after asking how much he had left. Limpers fold.

Flop
k q 10

I took a c/f line. His bet turned out to be an all-in. but i was c/fing regardless in my mind.
bdc30
I call here. Often.
Scott3705
QUOTE (bdc30 @ Monday, January 1st, 2007, 9:07 AM) *
I call here. Often.


I was torn. I couldn't figure out anything i beat.
Pot Odds RAC
Same stinking thing happened to me the other night playing at a home game - 3 times! Twice it was Flopping top two pair. I called all three times and lost to a Set twice and a flopped straight once.
bdc30
QUOTE (Scott3705 @ Monday, January 1st, 2007, 9:21 AM) *
I was torn. I couldn't figure out anything i beat.


Were the suits of any importance? He have AQ w/flush draw perhaps?
Scott3705
QUOTE (bdc30 @ Monday, January 1st, 2007, 9:40 AM) *
Were the suits of any importance? He have AQ w/flush draw perhaps?

suits weren't important. Atleast i don't remember thinking about a flush draw. Regardless, I don't think he puts in that preflop overbet w/ AQ.
disctiger85
What was the purpose of calling this huge overbet pre-flop if we were going to c/f almost any flop? I mean, you obviously don't think he's putting in that big of a raise with less than AK. Is JJ that unreasonable? Would he really push this flop with T's, Q's, or K's? If you put him on a big pair there's no need to put in that much money pre-flop behind. If he's any good then he isn't paying us on a A/K high board IMO. I often times fold this pre-flop, or I get crazy and put him in, but calling isn't something that makes me comfortable.
bdc30
QUOTE (disctiger85 @ Monday, January 1st, 2007, 9:53 AM) *
Would he really push this flop with T's, Q's, or K's?


That was my exact thought. If he flopped some kind of a monster, is he pushing here?
David_Nicoson
QUOTE (Scott3705 @ Monday, January 1st, 2007, 12:21 PM) *
I was torn. I couldn't figure out anything i beat.

JJ. AQ.
David_Nicoson
QUOTE (Scott3705 @ Monday, January 1st, 2007, 12:43 PM) *
Regardless, I don't think he puts in that preflop overbet w/ AQ.

Then I think we need to fold preflop.
disctiger85
QUOTE (David_Nicoson @ Monday, January 1st, 2007, 10:26 AM) *
Then I think we need to fold preflop.


QFT
NoSup4U
QUOTE (disctiger85 @ Monday, January 1st, 2007, 10:53 AM) *
What was the purpose of calling this huge overbet pre-flop if we were going to c/f almost any flop?
Scott3705
QUOTE (disctiger85 @ Monday, January 1st, 2007, 9:53 AM) *
What was the purpose of calling this huge overbet pre-flop if we were going to c/f almost any flop? I mean, you obviously don't think he's putting in that big of a raise with less than AK. Is JJ that unreasonable? Would he really push this flop with T's, Q's, or K's? If you put him on a big pair there's no need to put in that much money pre-flop behind. If he's any good then he isn't paying us on a A/K high board IMO. I often times fold this pre-flop, or I get crazy and put him in, but calling isn't something that makes me comfortable.


I rarely push Ak preflop in cash games. Granted he's not that deep, but he's deep enough and i'm expecting a call.

Point of posting the hand was to see how foldable this is preflop and what people thought. I took a decent amount of time in my preflop action and weighed that, but honestly couldn't bring myself to do it. For any flop, I believe that I may not stack this player on a K or A high board, but I would expect a C-bet most times. (He was asian.) Need help on the math w/ that if it really makes sense to call then. But I still think we have lines that get all this players chips on better flops that include an ace or king. Flop: C/C Turn: likely goes check check, River: he's committed to calling a bet on the river at that point with a pair of Queens or jacks. So I'm not totally convinced that we always have to fold this, but I'm not convinced that it's good to call.

I am somewhat suprised that everyone is taking the "how can you fold if a king comes" approach on this board.

Edit: I also did consider JJ in this hand as the only hand I really could beat. But do you expect him to try to blow me off ak here? W/ the action and deliberation preflop, he's got to have me on AK or a pair 88-jj. What's the point of overpushing the flop at that piont. also, Would you not push this board w/ a set and that stack?
krup24
I only see JJ that u beat or AK that you tie. This is an easy fold for me on this board. I get my money in here against this villian on 95% of K high flops but not this one.
pokerplayer24
I hate the idea of calling a huge raise OOP with AK. I think you should either be folding this pre or pushing.
DonkSlayer
QUOTE (pokerplayer24 @ Tuesday, January 2nd, 2007, 4:35 AM) *
I hate the idea of calling a huge raise OOP with AK. I think you should either be folding this pre or pushing.



Especially against non-full stacks, getting your money in HU with AK in a cash game is not that bad.
disctiger85
QUOTE (Scott3705 @ Monday, January 1st, 2007, 12:20 PM) *
I rarely push Ak preflop in cash games. Granted he's not that deep, but he's deep enough and i'm expecting a call.

But I still think we have lines that get all this players chips on better flops that include an ace or king. Flop: C/C Turn: likely goes check check, River: he's committed to calling a bet on the river at that point with a pair of Queens or jacks. So I'm not totally convinced that we always have to fold this, but I'm not convinced that it's good to call.

I am somewhat suprised that everyone is taking the "how can you fold if a king comes" approach on this board.


I also rarely push AK in cash games preflop. The thing is, if we're going to play AK in this spot with these stack sizes then it's push/fold. If you really think he's strong enough to where he's going to call a push then it's a super easy fold. I think it can be fun though to push this spot so that when we do find ourself in a similar/fortunate situation later with AA/KK then we will be more likely to get calls.

So if you do flop TPTK then you are planning on check/calling the flop, and checking the turn as well? Thus, giving our Agg player a chance to see all five cards without putting any money in against his will? I kinda hate the thought of this. Let's face it, there's hardly any money in the pot pre-flop other than his raise, and we have a drawing hand. There's really no need to bother in this spot, when we know we're going to have to hit an A or K. Push or fold.

I don't mind the fold on the flop at all....It's a nasty board and a lot of people that don't want to get drawn out on would push AA in that spot, so the fold is fine. Basically, I just really don't like calling pre-flop knowing we won't continue unless 1 of 6 cards in the deck comes out on the flop, and even then it has to be on a "safe" flop.
DonkSlayer
Why not B/f? We fold JJ/99, and we're very likely getting raised if we're behind, unless the nuts have been flopped.
Scott3705
QUOTE (DonkSlayer @ Tuesday, January 2nd, 2007, 11:32 AM) *
Why not B/f? We fold JJ/99, and we're very likely getting raised if we're behind, unless the nuts have been flopped.

Betting might pot commits me hoping for a chop on this board. maybe if I led for $30. Guess it comes back at 2:1 and it's foldable.
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