Absolute Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $3/$6
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is SB with T A
7 folds, Hero raises, BB calls.

Flop: 5 3 8 (4SB, 2 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, Hero 3-bets, BB calls.

Turn: 2 (5BB, 2 players)
Hero bets, BB folds.
Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to Hero.

Results:
Final pot: 5BB


Villain is standard AP player. Like 22/11ish.

Pretty common play for a lot of these donks is to raise the flop with anything. This doesn't even happen just during blind battles, but a lot at other times as well, but this is the best example I could find.

Does anyone like my line?

Any alternate lines?

i don't like the line, unless you have a read that villain will actually raise for information, and use that information (i.e. fold).

most villains, even aggressive ones, call down there with any pair.

i don't know what i'm doing in blind battles, so hopefully people tell me i'm wrong.

You look like a genius when it works, and like an absolute tard-face when you're wrong.

If you're pretty sure your opponent is raising here with air as well as good hands, I like it, just to add an element of control into future encounters, and force him to play more straightforward. There's nothing more annoying that a BB who plays really aggressively against your Button/SB raises. If he's able to utilize his position when you're in the SB, you really won't be able to raise too many hands all that profitably in this steal situation.

Since he had to give up here, now he's going to know everyone else knows he'll get out of line H/U in a blind battle.

This can be costly if you take it too far, though. Don't turn this into a spew. But I know what you're doing, and approve. This plays well not just for this hand, but for future hands. Establishing a measure of control here is important. I hate when someone forces me to play my hands very standardly.

Wang

ok lines in my book:

yours.

b/c flop, fold turn UI.

b/c flop, c/r turn no matter what.

i do all three on occasion in spots like this, and i think i have them listed from most to least likely above. nh.


oh, that "why" thing. the second would obviously be the "mathematically proper" move. the first and the third let your opponent know that he's ****ing with your chips and he's going to have to have a hand every time he wants to win a pot with you. that's important.

Too many people 3bet the flop with overs thinking that people "should" give you credit for an overpair.

People will very rarely believe you.

Even if they do think you have a big pair most of the time, the pot will be big enough in their minds to justify calling the turn with a paired hand to improve, and too big to fold the river unimproved. It's rare that you get a tight fold.



If you think it's that likely for him to be raising with air, there's little reason to push back.
Because if he does have a worse hand, he's putting in the turn bet no matter what comes anyways.

Whether you raise the turn after that or call is another issue.

First, I don't think we're looking for a tight fold here. If we ran into a real hand, we're getting looked up.

I'm kinda confused, here. If we think he's raising with no piece, why wouldn't we push back, either here or on the turn? You say there's no reason to push on the flop, but leave the door open for a turn raise, and call it another issue. It's more expensive to call the flop and check/raise the turn than it is to 3-bet and lead the turn. But it also likely conveys less strength.

Regardless, I'm confused. Are you advocating simply calling down with this hand? Or taking one off, and folding UI? And why don't you like putting in a few bets against a player who is likely to be raising with no piece?

Wang

The first part was about the flop.
Dont 3bet the flop because it wont get him to fold pairs, and he more often has a better hand than he does a worse hand.

When he does have a worse hand, what do you gain by 3betting? Value? A bit. And then he folds the turn UI, and often raises when he pairs.
You get one less half bet when ahead on the flop when he is ahead, but you get him to incorrectly put a bet in when he's behind that he might not have otherwise and he loses the ability to stuff 2 bets in on a turn that's favorable to him.

The important point is that he virtually never checks through on the turn if you just call the flop.
Fold, call or raise the turn after he bets based on how likely it is for him to do all that with air.