.25/.50 Bodog 9 handed

Hero utg+2: 2 2

Action: utg calls, utg+1 folds, Hero calls, 2calls, mp3 raises, co calls, button folds, blinds fold, 4 calls
Pot: 6BB

Flop: 10 2 5

Action: 4 checks, co bets, utg raises, Hero ???

Ok now my thought was to c/r the mp3 but he didnt bet and the co bet and utg raises...do i smooth call or 3bet this?

probably somewhat standard

edit...thats why you dont post late at night

why are you calling preflop?

how likely is a raise behind you?
how likely is it to be 4 handed with no raise or, like 6 handed with a raise ?

I'd shove the flop

wow..did i really just forget to post the flop cards? haha...let me re edit this

easy raise.
multiway, OOP, big pot, you have a set, value,

so 3bet>call?

um, who raised? I see you inline to raise, not 3-bet
Raise > call.

UTG fold the flop?

at lesat its so late people wont see the edits haha...im going to sleep...us humans need rest

I 3 bet.
The occassional lost bets from folding some of those other guys are often not coming along anyway, facing two cold so far.
so, get the bets in from CO and UTG. Pot's looking big, no reason to get fancy now.

hmmm lets beat another dead horse with a close preflop discusion

at a loose table why would you ever fold a pocket pair preflop unless it was like 3 to you and even then if theres enough people in?

at a weak tight table one limper dont be a wuss and raise that **** up.

the only kind of table where you should consider folding that there is the kind of table you shouldnt be at playing .25/.50.


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i am leading that flop praying for someone to have an overpair.

the way you played it do you think utg is ever checking that turn? i dont. just call and raise him on the turn. pop it up now and the co might fold. we dont want that, your hand is super not vulenerable here.

raising with 22 from UTG+2 is almost always spewing. - like 99.654% of cases

playing 22 for 3 bets preflop, even if you know 6 people will be with you to the flop, is spewing.

so about that dead horse....

also, flat calling now is not so good.
We get at least 2 more SB's with a raise here.
We have 4 players left to act.
It's really bad to pass on the value of a 3 bet on this flop

so actuary your think in limp/3bet preflop:?

yeah, exactly

so not close....

you call here and the co will call too. then when utg+1 bets the turn you raise, he'll call you down with a weak ten anyway and co might call you down too.

or........(and i feel this is the most likely scenario)

you call here and co likes his jj and makes it three. so utg+1 calls and you call. the action will go check check and co will bet, utg+1 will call and you raise and win a pot large enough for a hamburger and fries and mcdonalds.


raising on that flop is just going to stop the action most of the time and get everybody calling you down. if co is any good he might even fold an overpair there.



i was being a wiseass about preflop. sort of. folding small pocket pairs preflop in loose games is giving up a lot.

and if there are 6 players in a capped pot and your on the button with 22 and you fold you're nuts.

IMO, there are too many killer turn cards here. Either they beat us, or the kill our action, especially after simply coldcalling the flop. We look like a flush draw, and if we raise or bet when the flush hits, we're losing almost all of our action when we are ahead. I think the flop 3-bet is a MUST.

Preflop is bleh, btw. I play in tigher games at Absolute, and I'm pretty much folding 22-66 preflop from EP unless I know it's going to be at least 5 way. I don't care if there's a raise behind me, but as long as there are 2 limpers in front of me, or one limper and a LP player behind, and LP blinds, then we can limp, but these ar very unprofitable in 2 or 3 handed pots.

Antistuff:

interesting.
Do you think a set of 2's holds up enough 7 handed to be calling 4 cold preflop?
You also will be priced in to call bets/raise on a lot of flops

*******

this flop is not close, it's a 3 bet all day
standard SSHE

do you think that 7 handed preflop capped you are a) more likely to hit a set since they probobly dont have 2s in thier hand and they are less likely to beat you since they are all taking each others cards.

i really have no idea so take what i say about that there as just opinion and experience. i have a feeling that if you were really in that situation its like a super high variance thing that is actually very close in terms of being bad or good. but i have a pocket pair fetish, so ide call.

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you guys really dont think that you're in a great position to trap them both on the turn for a whole bunch? i think when you raise the flop you are going to stop the action a whole lot and get them all into check/calling mode. if you make it three you give the co a good reason to fold so many hands that he will call your checkraise on the turn with and call your bet on the river with. and because of where you are utg+1 really might come along for the ride.

zachs comment about there being a lot of scare cards does make sense to me though. but if you are going for value, think about how you are going to quite often get two BB from each of them on the turn if you just call.

you all really seem to disagree with me so im very interested in why my thinking differs from yours here.

Antistuff:

I'm by no means an expert on stuff like this, and I have no idea how I would do an EV calculation or anything like that.

Ideally for me, it boils down to this. If we wait for the turn, and like the 6h falls, and we c/r and are 3-bet, then we are putting in a ton of money when we are behind, and we do not have an equity edge, although we have outs. I'd much rather get the money in on the flop, as much as I can, when I am ahead 99% of the time. Then, we can bet/call a scary turn, and reevaluate on the river. 3-betting the flop maximizes what we put in when we are ahead, and minimizes what we put in when we are behind, I think.

That's just my thinking, and although it may be off, since obviously there are a bunch of safe turn cards as well, so take it for what it's worth, until Actuary gets in here and does some math to either back me up, or prove me wrong!

- Zach

well heres my thinking...either way if i call the raise or 3bet i am leaving them odds to call with flush draws on this flop...but dont yall think they are more likely to play correctly and call 2 bets as opposed to 3?

i see your point and think it very valid.

the only turn cards that scare me are jacks and hearts.

i think your chance to just call, get them all to stay in and check raise the turn and get them all to call is so huge that its worth giving up a little value on this flop. this can be so huge i dont think it has to turn out all that perfect for you very often for it to be more profitable.


if just utg and co play along with your game here thats 2bb from each on the turn and 1 from each on the river. if a flush draw calls you get 2 more from him too on the turn if he dont hit.

do you want a hamburger and fries from mcdonalds or something from the dollar menu?

remember you have a strong redraw if somebody makes a flush. a redraw so strong that say they make the nut flush you might get that river capped.

you cannot price out flush draws in lhe. your goal here is to get the hands that are drawing dead to you to put in as much as possible.

they dont know you have a set. if they had two over and flush draw folding for three would be absolutely stupid of them.

haha this is low limits on bodog...i saw a guy c/cap with j9s

Anti,

how are you counting on a turn c/r ?
UTG just c/r'd the flop.

There's a decent chance he leads the turn
There are still 3 players left too act.
A lot of players slow down on the big streets, I like to build the pot now and have them pot stuck drawing slim.