Absolute Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $2/$4
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is MP2 with 7 7
3 folds, Hero raises, MP3 calls, 2 folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: 2 5 8 (8SB, 4 players)
SB bets, BB folds, Hero...


Villain is 30/12/1.06 after 82 hands.

I raise flop. If he 3bets, I call and fold turn UI. You can't give him enough credit just yet imo.

Why call 3-bet and fold turn?

***************

I'd raise and fold to a 3-bet
He could lead any piece here, loose and ave agg for that VPiP

I think a raise is the right play....whats the move on the turn if he calls the raise and checks the turn?

b/f and check behind on river
or
I check and call a river bet ??? (I mix that up)

On this board, we're WB or fading like 5 outs.
I think we should usually bet here
I think we are ahead a lot when we are not 3-bet

What if.....


He's likely leading the turn if we call. What if we raise if any paint or 7 turns, and keep going with it? Are we always going to get called down by an 8?

i mix in checking the turn and calling river bets also, but in this case, i think the board is too draw-heavy (this is often 67), and his AF is too low.
for someone with a higher AF, i like this play.



i like to mix in just calling the flop and raise/folding the turn. gets the extra half-bet in if he's drawing, occasionally folds a pair of 8s, and still gets us to showdown. also, he may well bet/3-bet the flop with 67, while he's never 3-betting the turn as a bluff.

I'd like to know if that works because I'd like to add that kinda stuff.

But here, I want to raise flop with player left to act.

I think you need to have your opponent pegged a certain way.

Some "good" players (and usually multitablers) make a hand they think ahead is on the flop and can't understand that they would be beat later on, whether their opponent made a donk call on the flop or not. This would not be the type to go after.

For me, this works against a thinking LAG when I've had a TAG image on my table, and against tight passives. I would say, against an unknown, it works about 60% of the time assuming you can put them on just a pair that isn't an over to the highest card on the board. Problem is, if your image is loose OR you've gotten caught doing it once (whether you made it to showdown or not), it never works again, although you can make your loose image work in your favor by doing the same thing when you flop very strong.

i think if you are going to continue you absolutely have to raise because of mp3.

raise/folding the turn would be cool if it was heads up.

So, I raised, he 3-bet, I called, folded a J turn.

Villain ended up showing down 99 vs MP.

I think with MP calling 2 cold, and then the third bet always, calling to hit my set is definitely not a huge mistake.

- Zach

i agree. this is one of those loose flop calls you make even though you know its a little wrong because raise/folding a flop in that spot is suicide against good players.

I think as long as u dont get to crazy if you are willing to lay down to an ui turn this is good

Before playing SH or reading SH and/or higher limit hands, I used to just fold this to a lead.
I hated playing mid-pairs, or essentially, just about any pair vs a gay bet when over card(s) hit.

I'm wondering how to play them better.
Perhaps flop texture should play a part. Is he leading a draw?
Have we folded a lot of flops after raising preflop?
How many players are left to act?

I"m not sure if I (we) don't make more $$$ just playing them for set/over pair value post flop when we are lead into, at least if its a dry board.

FWIW, Actuary, I've noticed a lot of players on AP, not specifically this villain, but some players who donk a lot of flops, only to fold to a c/r. Usually HU though, but you never know.

about 3/4 of the time i raise/fold the flop if it's HU. since MP called 2 cold, i peel the 3rd bet and toss turn UI just as you did.

the other 1/4 of the time i defend with a turn raise no matter what comes on the turn. using this line three way is generally ok since it shows so much strength that you can assume mp is going to toss the turn without 2p+ or maybe a turned tp (the latter doesn't happen often).

it's very important to mix up your defenses against donkbet attacks, btw. if you throw in enough turn raises against someone they will very often settle down and play predictably on flops in the future. in my experience, that is.

When I first taking poker seriously, I just started randomly doing this at 3/6 on up. With hands I wanted to peel with, I'd raise the turn like 1/5 times, regardless of the turn. Sometimes more, depending on the table texture. I was probably only a mildly winning player, but just randomly raising turns seemed to make the game 100% easier to play. It took me at least 3 or 4 months to figure out why. I've since changed my strategy to "a lot less weird and random," but it's still quite similar

Wang