Hero is in the SB with J 10 .

Preflop: MP1 calls, C/O calls, Hero calls, BB checks.

Flop: K Q 5

Hero checks, BB bets, MP1 calls, C/O fold, Hero calls

Turn A

Hero checks, BB bets, MP1 calls, Hero raise, BB call, MP1 fold

River 6

Hero bets ......

What do you guys think? Standard right? BB is a good, winning player; MP1 is unknown.

I play it identically.

If this pot were heads up, I'd occassionally go for a river c/r, just to keep good, thinking players from value betting behind me too much on the river.

But, yes, quite standard.

Wang

I dont really like it if BB is good. My guess is that he either has you beat or he isnt as good as you think he is. What hand do you put him on that bets this turn? Anything besides a flush or straight would raise preflop. I would bet/call down. getting 3bet would suck, but if you can fold go for it.

Lots of hands with the Jc or Tc would fire at this turn. QxJc. QxTc. KxJc. KxTc. Kx9c, even. There are a pretty wide range of hands that would lead this flop and bet the turn. He could even be free-rolling on us with TJ and a club redraw. He could have flopped a set of fives. Maybe he has AT, and decided to lead the flop with his gutshot.

Wang

The only thing that makes sense that we are not beat by is Jt. Anything else would be horrible. This is the absolute death card to anything but a straight. Im not saying he woudnt bet turn with a worse hand, Im just saying a good player wouldnt.

Why don't all the other hands I listed make any sense?

Wang

Its not that they dont make sense, its that they dont make sense given our read of villain as a "good player." A good player will realize that a bet here wont accomplish anything and the worst thing that could happen is you get checkraised on a bb street with one card to come. He knows he is never folding a better hand and he is getting checkraised alot of the time. He would be totally different if he could count on two pair or straight outs, but the hands you listed have a significant equity deficit to a hand that would cr this turn card.

Lucky,

do you realize there are only 3 clubs on board?
I can't believe you think only flushes should bet this turn

I believe a straight would also, and possibly a set. I dont think a high 2 pair is out since there is no raise pf, so I cant imagine what else villain could have. I think a" bet by villain with hands listed by SW would be a mistake and since he is a "good player" he probably does not make this mistake. So I dont like cring this turn. I think getting 3bet would be bad here and the possibility that he does have a flush or Jt with a club are high enough to make this bet/call instead.

Also not to mention the fact that we cant rely on villain to bet the hands that SW has listed. Giving a free card if we are ahead would be horrendous.

First of all, does anyone lead the flop?

Secondly, even good players bet a lot of hands on the turn here, that AREN'T the flush or straight. He was BB. He could have a random hand. A5, K5, Q5, KQ won't raise pf from the BB, sometimes even AQ won't.

I play it the same, although, I kinda like the bet/call line on the turn, calling the river.

I agree with McCatcher...any set besides 5s would've raised preflop, any good 2 pair raise preflop as well. I should've bet the turn to not give a free card and avoid being 3 bet if I'm beat. During the hand, I wasn't thinking very clearly about the fact that he is a good player in the BB and any of the usual hands that I would suspect to continue betting doesn't apply.

Anyway, results below if you want to know....

River:
Hero bets, BB calls.

BB has 52 of clubs

Hand looks completely standard to me. BB will be betting the turn with almost anything that he bet the flop with.

I don't leading the flop because we're just giving every draw better odds.

What about leading the the turn, though? We might lose a bet from the BB if we do?

huh????
We're one of those players who wants better odds.
But I don't lead the flop because our equity wouldn't justify it, especially if it gets popped and we end up 2-3 way, OOP.

I'm now seeing Lucky's point on the turn. It's good to learn and see varying opinions.