SS2: "If you play limit hold'em at all, the section on limit hold'em written by Jennifer Harman is worth the price of the book alone. Jennifer goes into great detail how to isolate your opponents by using the three bet as well as position."

PPLTP: "I truly believe that if you read this book and follow the principals closely it could help you advance in tournament poker. However, try these same principals and you basically have no chance for success in cash games.

The book stresses brute aggression and isolation tactics that are simply ineffective in most cash games."

Yeah I see your point. In the first he's saying it's always correct to isolate your opponents at any cost while in the second he's saying you should never isolate.

Do I really need the (sw) here?

I totally do not follow.

..

WTF is PPLTP???

Play Poker Like The Pros.

Any chance he is talking about no-limit cash games where in the first quote he is talking about limit cash games.

I guess only Daniel could say for sure but that is a possibility.

Haven't read second book so cannot say why knowing the real context of book.

You may perceive what he's saying differently than he meant it. You are giving us 2 lines out of two books. Pretty easy to find differences. The meaning behind them could be percieved by the reader differnetly than the intention.

Hopefully Daniel may put in his 2 cents on this at some point but my likely conclusions is he is talking about the difference between NL tourneys and NL cash games and the line about Jen's Limit advice has no bearing.

*shrug* who knows.

could be that daniel loves to praise harmon and loves to berate hellmuth.

oh well, just pointing out that his descriptions of the two books seemed to contradict themselves.

looking forward to his power poker book or whatever it's called.

That's my impression too. I'm not sure if Hellmuth ever wrote about Limit. All of his WSOP wins are in NLHE.

Taking a sentence from each book and trying to compare them without context is difficult.

hellmuth's main section in his first book is limit holdem cash games. there's nearly 100 pages on it and only 30 about NL.

This is simple and tricky and very much in refrence to the inviduals an what they are saying in their writtings/book as a whole.

SS2: "If you play limit hold'em at all, the section on limit hold'em written by Jennifer Harman is worth the price of the book alone. Jennifer goes into great detail how to isolate your opponents by using the three bet as well as position."

here Daniel is pointing out a tactic that Jennifer talks about as "part" of a limit hold'em strategy. A tactic!


PPLTP: "I truly believe that if you read this book and follow the principals closely it could help you advance in tournament poker. However, try these same principals and you basically have no chance for success in cash games.

here Daienl is judging Phils complete strategy as advocated in PPLTP. He is not talking about a tactic he is judging a strategy.

So what does this mean?

*It means Daniel admires the Hell out of Harmans Tenacity and ability to put her self in situations without affecting her ability to judge or exploit her opponent weaknessnes. She does this like butter chilling in a refrigerator.

I think Daniel likes Phil's fixed Sklanskyesque Nl tournament staregy for newcomers. I think he would fell this can improve the chances of newer players from being complete dead money. Phils strategy when apllied to Nl tournaments makes you more responsible for a limited number of simpler decsions, which you execute strongy based on very limited parameters. This is good because you then are more responsible for the money you lose. If you dont rely on this as a newcomer and loosin up and play more hands willy nilly you put more of the responsibilty for your loses in your more skilled opponents hands.

But folks a neophyte holdem player in this day and age should see how playing NL cash games based on predefined rigid formulas isn't going any where good. Unless your opponents are real real dumb. If they are RRD then by all means, go for it.

But phils book is about limit mainly?

And its the most controversial part of the book.

Yes sir ree bob it is. You see Phil was adapting the system David Sklansky created for friends and family. you see that wild braniac Sklansky actualy sat down and thought of a way to give the average novice hold/em palyer a fighting chance. He did this so more ppl could get in on the fun of Nl tournaments. pretty cool huh? This is why most ppl wouldn't buck Phils advice in the Nl section when applied to tournaments. Its pretty status quo that the Sklansky sysytem is a good system and Phils advice in the Nl section when applied to tournaments mirrors Sklansky's.

So again why is the limit part controversial?

Because Phil is taking the Sklansky system and applying it to limit hold'em. Sklansky himself has never even attempted such mad sciencery. (and don't try and tell me he has. his parameters in other books are way to large and variable compared to the sytem.)


what does this mean about Daniel does he just hate Phil H.?

maybe. I got no clue about how they view each other personaly. FYI: Phil seemed willing to put Daniels name out in the world when he was a lesser known player.

Personally I think the issue here is that Daniel and Phil advocate different views of how to play poker folks. Daniel likes a more flexible approach and Phil is advocating a rigid strategy with brute aggresion and Harman is advocating a tactic to use in situations that are opurtune.

In the first statement I'm saying that Jennifer explains how to use three betting with position properly. Not overdoing it, picking your spots, etc. In the second quote I'm saying that in Phil's book, his strategy is geared more towards tournament limit hold'em rather than cash games because it's too aggressive and you couldn't beat good players with that approach.

Whenever I read PPLTP I do much better in tournaments. The ultra tight style will allow you to be around to 'get lucky' more often if you are not an awesome post flop player like DN or so many other great players.

So if you want to be able to dodge bullet baby....

Who is Danny?

Thank you for posting on this Daniel. I knew there most likely a reason behind the difference in opinions. I appreciate your time and incite in straightening things out for all of us. I really didn't want to read both books over at this time to figure it out myself.

1989 $10,000 No Limit Hold'em World Championship $755,000
1992 $5,000 Limit Hold'em $188,000
1993 $1,500 Limit Hold'em $138,000
1993 $2,500 No Limit Hold'em $161,400
1993 $5,000 No Limit Hold'em $173,000
1997 $3,000 Pot Limit Hold'em $204,000
2001 $2,000 No Limit Hold'em $316,000
2003 $2,500 Limit Hold'em $171,400
2003 $3,000 No Limit Hold'em $410,860
2006 $1,000 No Limit Hold'em with rebuys


Yeah......