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Full Version: Questionable Turn Play With Three-card Wrap..?
FCP Poker Forum > Poker Strategy Forum > Omaha Poker
DrawingDeadInDM
FTR Converter didn't work for Full Tilt, sorry..

Villain is an okay player, but nothing exciting, Hero thinks he's got a sizeable edge--and he's probably right. Hero's got a fairly TAG/straightforward table image and villain is beginning to play a lot of pots with big stack.

Full Tilt Poker $0.50/$1 - Pot Limit Omaha

Seat 5: villain ($301.85)
Seat 6: Hero ($143.80)

Hero is deal [Th Kc Ac Kd]
UTG folds
Villain calls $1
Hero raises to $4.50
Two folds
Random dude calls $3.50
Villain calls $3.50
*** FLOP *** [Qs 7h Jc]
Randomdude checks
Villain checks
Hero bets $6
random folds
Villain raises to $19
Hero calls $13

This is where I think the hero made a mistake. I think if we're going to play this pot, we should re-raise the flop and get as much in now as possible. A blanked turn and we're hating ourselves, no?

The villain could be playing a hand like QJXX KTXX, and set or even a hand like T9XX. He's pretty unpredictable but leaning on the donk-side.

Anyone disagree with re-raising here?

*** TURN *** [Qs 7h Jc] [5h]
Villain 14 bets $52
Hero raises to $120.30, and is all in

This is where I thought it got really bad..We've got AKT with no real other draws on a board with now two hearts where we could very well be walking into a set. Aside from that, Hero's only getting 2-1 to call with his 8 outs. I think it's a pretty obvious fold, no?

If we're going to play it, we have to push, I think, but, I really don't think he's donktastic enough that he folds for ~68, getting almost 4-1 on his call to our push.

The hero disagreed with me on just about every point of this, and I'm curious what you all think..let me know.

Results below..

Villain calls $68.30
Hero shows [Th Kc Ac Kd]
Villain shows [Ks Jh Jd 2d]
*** RIVER *** [Qs 7h Jc 5h] [3c]
Hero shows a pair of Kings
Villain shows three of a kind, Jacks
Villain wins the pot ($289.60) with three of a kind, Jacks
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $292.60 | Rake $3
Board: [Qs 7h Jc 5h 3c]
BudBundy
Actually it highly depends on your style.

There are two ways to play this hand;

1)We pot and re-pot flop trying to fold any two pairs or draws and counting on our 12 outs.

2)We see a cheap turn and fold UI.

I don't think any of these plays are wrong.
DrawingDeadInDM
QUOTE (BudBundy @ Monday, November 6th, 2006, 6:56 AM) *
Actually it highly depends on your style.

There are two ways to play this hand;

1)We pot and re-pot flop trying to fold any two pairs or draws and counting on our 12 outs.

2)We see a cheap turn and fold UI.

I don't think any of these plays are wrong.


I thought the ideal line was to check/call the flop, fold to a potbet on a bricked turn, myself, but, I understand your point.
davezz5
I think the hero covered the main points pretty well. If you do re-raise on the flop, then he re-raise's what then. The semi-bluff aspect has been negated by his agression, you're gonna have to make your hand. And your still gonna hate a blanked turn.

Definite fold on the turn. You would want the pot to offer about 4.5/1 to make this a winning play.
bassplayer45459
I like a raise on this flop here, it is not a scary board, you are most likely only going to get re-raised by top set, or middle set...so by re-raising the flop, you are essentially giving yourself a huge hand to hit on the turn, or a free card on the turn when your opponent most likely checks the turn if he does not fill up or make his straight. If you get re-raised a gain, i think you can dump it?
Whiskey16
I don't like putting the money in on the turn there. At these levels, I think check raises typically mean something strong. I don't see a lot of check raises unless it's people protecting sets on draw heavy boards.

On the flop, we're looking at about 12 out without considering a backdoor flush draw.

At that point, if all the 12 outs are clean, and with raising preflop, if we re-raise, we've got some fold equity, but with two other players to the flop, I've got to think at least 3-4 of our outs are dead.

At best, we're 48%, so if we want our money in with a coin flip, I re-pot the flop, and get the money in.

Once we call and whiff on the turn, and the villain bets out heavy, I think we're done. We're likely drawing 25% at the very very best, and I don't think there's enough fold equity in our push to get the villain out of the pot, after he's made two shows of strengh, and we might even be looking at a split pot if one of our outs come.

I think we can find way better places to get our money in than on this turn.
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