Pretty much required.

Heh, I knew you were.

That's something else that's important to mention here.

It's a good thing for the democrats that the gall darn Librul Media hasn't played this clip 6,248,968,743 times more than was required.

fags




can I get a crotch squeeze in as well?

Or win a war in a matter of weeks even though the media convinces the masses otherwise.

Mission Accomplished.

now that was funny

you can catch a guy in a hole in a couple of weeks

winning is much more subjective

Home court advantage is huge in a war

KO...

Click Here

...or topple a dangerous dictator who had killed tens of thousands of his own people, was a threat to the region, and continually defied UN Sanctions...

...and defeat an army that at one time was the region's strongest, best trained, and weaponed....

...in doing so, you could limit civilian casualties and collateral damage to a minimum...

...you could also limit multi national coalition casualties to an amazingly low number...

...you could set up a new Democracy and give people a taste of freedom for the first time in their lives...

...you could help them hold free elections and continue to help them stabilize and rebuild.

All with the (nearly) unanimous support of both houses of Congress a strong international coalition and UN sanctions

Mission accomplished.

Well stated. I don't think lefties realize that the violence that is going on is more likely due to muslim terrorists advancing their agenda against the West in the easiest place possible, than Bush kissing dad's ass.

It's easy to criticize the current regime, but does anyone really wish that Gore would have been in the white house on 9-11?

heh yeah he was so dangerous he was hiding in a hole in less than a month -

let's ask this bin laden happy or upset at how the last 5 years have gone - i bet he can't believe how successful he's been

next time someone punches you hit them back don't kick your dog

If most republicans think like this then we are in trouble. Nearly every one of these points is highly suspect to completely delusional. Rather than restate what has been already said countless times in easy to find places, I'll just post one picture that shows you are utterly wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Iraqatt...sofjuly2006.JPG

How does a graph on the number of attacks against the coalition have anything to do with ANY of the points the pot odds rac mentioned? Do you even read opposing view points before you start urinating your socialist crap all over?



Please dispute ANY of the bolded parts. Thank you in advance.

see this is why we don't have a political forum

2 things you never, ever argue with "friends"

Politics and religion. No one will ever concede, and it just gets ugly.

That said, being a wealthy white male who owns his own business, I say "Vote Republican!"

I hate thinking that if democrats had their way, I would pay even more of my hard earned money to people who don't have what I have. I worked hard to get to where I am, and I don't see any reason to take care of people who aren't as well off. Call me selfish, fine. It's funny, people who want to take from the rich and give to the poor, usually don't have much.

Begin hate now.

I don't want to start a debate, but I'm pretty sure Bush didn't get C's and D's. I thought he was an A student. Could be wrong though.

Obviously not hard to dispute:




Well, about 50 thousand have died in the few years since the war began, so that's not too much of an improvement. I don't see too much difference whether they die at the hands of a dictator or whether they die at the hands of terrorists, insurgents, or collateral damage



Well, they were pretty soft after the first gulf war. No one's arguing that the US has a good army. But we didn't defeat the real opposing army, which is the army of terrorists and insurgents that are still fighting against us.



Again, 40,000 to 50,000 civilians killed as a result of the conflict. Also, a good amount of what infrastructure that they had was destroyed, limiting power, water, etc






Easy to minimize ally casualties when we do all the work and take all the hurt.



The current democracy is somewhat of a joke and will be until they can figure out exactly how Shiites, Sunnis, and Kurds will all fit together to govern the nation. Also, I don't consider the consistent threat of being suicide bombed that much freedom.



Elections, yes. Stabilize, joke. Rebuild, somewhat.



Nearly unanimous support of congress is just flat out wrong, especially right now. The true extent of the coalition is questionable.

How does a graph on the number of attacks against the coalition have anything to do with ANY of the points the pot odds rac mentioned? Do you even read opposing view points before you start urinating your socialist crap all over?
QUOTE(Pot Odds RAC @ Thursday, November 2nd, 2006, 3:56 PM) *
...or topple a dangerous dictator who had killed tens of thousands of his own people, was a threat to the region, and continually defied UN Sanctions...
...and defeat an army that at one time was the region's strongest, best trained, and weaponed....
...in doing so, you could limit civilian casualties and collateral damage to a minimum...
...you could also limit multi national coalition casualties to an amazingly low number...
...you could set up a new Democracy and give people a taste of freedom for the first time in their lives...
...you could help them hold free elections and continue to help them stabilize and rebuild.
All with the (nearly) unanimous support of both houses of Congress a strong international coalition and UN sanctions
Mission accomplished.

Please dispute ANY of the bolded parts. Thank you in advance.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Youre joking right? If you cant see how this graph has anything to do with these points then you really are crazy. It refutes the last 6 points that he makes. But for the sake of those who might not be so far gone, I'll give a brief rundown of why these points are wrong.

Yes, Saddam killed thousands of people and defied UN sanctions. But the problem is that there are many other countries that have done this and worse, and we dont do anything about them. This obviously opens us up to charges of hypocrisy and lying about why we really invaded.

At one time, maybe. But definitely not when we invaded. Since they were absolutely no threat to invade anyone with the constant attention from the US, this point is irrelevant anyway.

The number is only low because there was an amazingly low amount of international support and troops.

Freedom to die and live in total chaos is not how most people envision democracies.

Not only arent they stabilizing, they are going in the wrong direction.

The support was never that unanimous even in the US. The democrats went along because they didnt want to look antiwar after 9/11. The support dissolved years ago, and there never was a strong international coalition.

i think both he and Kerrey were pretty bad students

there is article on Salon from one of Bush's MBA profs that said he taught Bush and another republican senator and the other guy was smart and open to idea and that Bush was basically the most callow student he ever had - he'd argue stuff be proven wrong and then deny he had said stuff and said he was pro viet nam but bragged about getting out of the war

it's not a right vs left thing to me - they both disgust me and my opinions just get lower and lower - i hate the right's ideology - i hate the democrats lack of one or at least lack of guts to stand up for it

none of these guys care - they are all trying to make money and they are all trying to get re-elected and they'll blow any way that helps them do it

Now *thats* leadership!


...and that is revisionism

Hey, I got a new joke.

So a soldier walks into a bar after he turns down a 3.5 million dollar contract to the arizona cardinals so he can fight in the war.

a guy across from him says, Man what are you stupid?? and he says No but the guys who friendly fired at me are.

baddum ching!!!!



war what is it good for?. thats my new book

Vat is that beeping?

Way to denegrate the actions and memory of an American hero.

You sir are a complete Moron.

and not the cool kind either, the kind taht annoys everyone, which is much more meaningful

didn't your precious administration lie and cover up the facts of his death to promote their war and agenda?



ok, just checking.

i'll see you guys in north korea in a couple years. maybe we can be in the same unit

Ok I have a couple problems with this statement because I have a 129 IQ and I was in Iraq.

You could get killed riding in a car, does that mean you walk everywhere? Oh wait you could get killed walking, so do you stay inside?

You can't say something like this, if you were never in the military. You have no idea what it's like to get that phone call saying your plane leaves in 3 weeks, be ready. Yeah theres a part of you that thinks about leaving, about abandoning all of your friends and family that you've grown close to since you were in basic training. Leaving something that you've trained for everyday for 3 years because you think you might get killed? Well what if it was a worthwile war, you could still get killed but it's ok because it meant something? As a soldier you are'nt privy to make those decisions. You signed the contract knowing full well that a possibility of war could exist.

When I enlisted in 2000 before anything happened someone asked me what I would do if I was called into a war. I said I would go and not think twice about it. Oct 2001 I was asked again, this time in front of 6 TV cameras if I would go if I was called into action and my answer never changed. My best friend from home called me and told me how his friends are saying "give me a gun, ill fight" Well they went out and partied that weekend, I stayed in and cleaned my M-16 because I was getting ready to pick it up and fight.

You say you would be AWOL in a second that you might go, then you sir are a coward that thinks youre making the "smart" decision. Well if you don't go, there will be someone who goes in your place. As a soldier you don't have the luxury to determine what you do and do not follow. You follow, if you dont, people die plain and simple.

Do you think that soldiers from WWII thought it was a good war and wanted to be in someone elses country fighting someone elses war? But you would think twice about it because it was claimed as a worthwile war. What you didnt see is the look on Iraqis faces when we rolled through there and freed them from an oppression on par with hitlers. You think that you can sit at home, on your computer, watch Anderson Cooper 360, blog about how this is a stupid war and that soldiers shouldnt go, they should quit and go awol just like you would. That sir, may be one of the most cowardly things I have ever heard in my life. And you are ignorant on top of that. Im sure you are a smart guy, and you think you make smart decisions, but dont imply that soldiers are stupid because they have a sense of duty, honor, integrity, and loyalty that you will obviously never possess. And they are willing to stand up and fight when you yourself would turn around and run

So the cool kind of morons must be the ones who denegrate the memory and actions of an American hero for a not so funny "jpoke"?

You must be a blast at parties.

you sir, are way off.

they released numbers recently in which over 650,000 iraqis have died. About 2% of the population.

My unit alone killed 12-15,000 Iraqis the first night of the war, and 42-55,000 throughout the war. But I was heavy artillery. And BDA is sometimes skewed.

Actually that report was widely panned even by American media. It was essentially a reissue of the report that was released on the eve of the 2004 election that the author admitted that he was trying to inflence the outcome of the election. The approach used to compile the statistics was completely subjective.

I think you helped his point.

Is this seriously all you have as a response? What makes this guy a hero anyways?

So you think he is a hero because he is fighting to stop terrorism?
Do the people living in Iraq think Pat Tillman is a hero? I doubt it

do you know how many Canadian troops have been killed from american fire? Who are the hero's in that situation? The ones who died, the ones who killed? both?

Would you even give a rat's asss for Pat Tillman if it wasnt for the fact that he turned down a NFL contract?






LOL i love this thread

I did. And I agree that we should no longer be there. It was'nt worth it once the very first soldier fell, who was a marine. A marine who was shot 7 times in the helmet before I bullet finally pierced his kevlar and killed him. You never heard that story, but we did because thats when the war was not worth it to us.

But what I did'nt do was stop fighting and go AWOL like Kieth said he would, thats what really pissed me off.

Do I think its a good war, absolutely not. Do I think if we started leaving once saddam was captured it would be a lot better, obviously. But we didnt, and we wont. There will always be a military presence in the Middle East for a very very long time.

Team America, world police, right?.....

Actions.


Some may, I hope they would. If not I really don't care. Probably a more relevant question to ask if any Afghanis felt he was a hero since that was where he was killed (perhaps you ought to learn the difference between Iraq and Afghanistan). But it is still irrelevant. I called him an AMERICAN hero on purpose.

How bout no, you crazy canadian bastard.

America protects its global interests throughout the world. If canada ever had any global interests they might do the same.

Is it for money, yes. Does it make it right, no. Does what you think matter, absolutely not. Worry about your own country canuck

Not certain, but I think you are refering to an incident in Afghanistan, not Iraq. But I am also sure that several have been killed by friendly fire in Iraq too.


Yes. Both. I thank them for their service and sacrifice.

Do you?

didn't think so.

Yes. I just happen to have a face/name/story to associate with his bravery, dedication, sacrifice, and - yes- heroism.

Well, as far as Brad Keith goes, he should've grown up in the 60's. I agree with a lot of what he writes but sometimes he veers a little further left than I. Rarely though.

That being said, I find it telling that sooo many Righties blindly follow everything this admin does as if it is directly from the mouth of god. oops, it is isn't it?

SO SAYETH THE SHEPPARD




Don't you dare pick on Royal. Don't you see how good looking he is? People that look that good don't need facts.

See, no offence against you, but this is where you are wrong.

What i think does matter because myself, like many people around the world, and even many americans think what the american government does for global interest is not in anyones interest but their own. Which would then make it "not global" but rather whats good for america.

And if you can say "who cares, worry about your own country", that goes to show exactly how we (other non US countries) view your country as a whole.






No, I don't BUt i know there is more than a few, which is a few too many.

wouldnt you agree



I dont view him as a hero.

do you have other names of people. I'l give u a break down on if i think Hero or Not.



dont be jealous

Not really. Unfortunate certainly, but not unacceptable.

Oh i get it, you're a joke account

You asked earlier if I gave a rat's butt about something. Your view of American heros is one thing about which I do not give a rat's butt.

"America protects its global interests"

That statement means it protects its own interests throughout the world. I know they're not everyone elses interests that was my point. We're protecting ours. And of course were going to do what's good for us, exactly the same thing you do for yourself. You want something for yourself, you get it. You don't want a girl to be your girlfriend anymore, you dump her. You protect your own interests, albeit not globally and we protect ours.

And again, if Canada had any global interests they would protect them as well.

Nope. Quite serious. I accept the unfortunate but inevitable casualties due to friendly fire. According to some accounts there were 21,000 casualties due to friendly fire in WWII...

...and 5 in Afghanistan.

One more in a NATO Mission in Afghanistan:

"Caused when two U.S. A-10 Thunderbolts accidentally strafed their own NATO forces in southern Afghanistan, killing Canadian Private Mark Anthony Graham, and seriously wounding five others when soldiers were trying to seize a Taliban stronghold along the Arghandab River. Graham was a former Canadian Olympic althlete who competed on the Canadian 4x400 Men's Relay Team at the 1992 Barcelona Olympics."

Also a hero, now with a name for me.

I would absolutely agree, that 1 death, canadian, American or anyone else for that matter, is way too many.

you're the second person to ask him that today. Awesome


actually, this statement bothers me. What does your military record look like? Did you serve in a forward area?

How would you feel if a close friend or family member was the victim of friendly fire? Would it still be acceptable to you? Don't be so quick to accept the deaths of people for a war we shouldn't be involved in. Don't give me terrorism or evil leader killing people because there are plently of those left that we will never bother messing with.

Very rarely do I get involved in these discussions, but this statement actually turned my stomach. Get a grip man. Really.

Look. War is Hell. And friendly fire incidents are part of that Hell. I don't like it. I think they should be minimized. But they are going to happen. End of story.

Did I serve? No.

Would it break my heart if a close friend or family member was killed by friendly fire? yes.

Would I then blame the Republicans or blame everyone in positions of authority? Nope.

You make an assumptive claim that it is "a war we shouldn't be involved in" I do not share your point of view on that.

[size=2]
great post, but don't waste your energy on keith crime.

I for one thank you for your service. Men like you make in posible for pussies like him to have the chance to live in freedom.

Obviously you haven't seen the belt buckle.