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Gallo
Ok there's only 2 tables left out of about 60. Blinds are at 200-400.
I have approxiametly 6000 in chips. I raise to 1500 with QsQd. I get 2 callers. The first caller is an older man who calls alot just to see the flop. He's gone all in a few times before on the flop with middle pair or weaker.

Flop is 10c6c3c
I bet out 2000, older man calls, BB folds
Turn puts another club out there. I still have top pair. But I check, thinking he might check it, instead he goes all in (He has me covered by about 500 chips).
If I call and lose I'm basically out. If I call and win I have a good shot at placing in the money. If I fold, I'm left with 2500.

I know you guys don't really like to have results posted. But just to let you guys know I folded.

After looking back on it I know I made a few mistakes. One really big mistake on the flop.

So my question/s:
1. I should've just shoved the flop right? At the time, I thought my 2000 bet would've chased the 2 guys out. Guess I was wrong.

2. Was I committed enough to warrant a call? I already put in half my stack and was about to get hit with the BB and SB.

3. Should I have gone with my gut and read on him as weak? My read from his previous pushes was that he had something like a middle pair and not a club in his hand. Then he started talking about what his possible holding was, basically saying he had an Ace. To me it didn't matter if he had an Ace or not, I cared if he had a club.

4. Was folding correct?
simo_8ball
Either shove preflop or raise to 1k.

As played, shove the flop.

You have to check-fold the turn if you get that far.
shpaget
as stated, bet 1000 pf, or just push.

As played, you have a problem.

The pot is 4900.

You have 4500 to bet.

If you push, either one of your opponents are getting better than 2:1 to see two cards.

That means, if either one of them has a club, they are getting the correct price to call....this is an even better price if they have the K or A of clubs.

And, if neither one of them has a club, you are either way ahead or way behind.

Beyond check/folding against bad reverse implied odds, you need them to make a mistake.
IQCrash
I'd shove pre-flop with that stack. You're not exactly deep with 200-400 blinds - that's an M of 10 with no antes - throw in antes and it's a definite push from UTG with a vulnerable hand like QQ and your M/stack.

As played, shove the flop.

As played, fold to the push on the turn.
Gallo
QUOTE (IQCrash @ Wednesday, November 1st, 2006, 4:13 PM) *
I'd shove pre-flop with that stack. You're not exactly deep with 200-400 blinds - that's an M of 10 with no antes - throw in antes and it's a definite push from UTG with a vulnerable hand like QQ and your M/stack.

As played, shove the flop.

As played, fold to the push on the turn.

I thought of that, but this MTT was full of inexperienced players. It was one of those neighborhood fundraiser types of tourneys. I had everyone covered at my table except that old man. I was outplaying these guys for the most part. I got sucked out on a few times and made a big bluff that cost me. So at my table I was 2nd in chips, I didn't feel there was a real need to shove all in preflop, especially if someone woke up with a big hand. And there were times these guys would call all ins with almost anything. So I felt alot more comfortable playing after the flop rather than shoving preflop.
simo_8ball
If they will call with A9, 77, etc you should shove preflop.
Gallo
QUOTE (simo_8ball @ Wednesday, November 1st, 2006, 4:52 PM) *
If they will call with A9, 77, etc you should shove preflop.

But why get into possible race situations if you can accumulate chips by playing post flop? I mean I understand what you're saying as far as pushing preflop. I'm a huge favorite over alot of the junk that the players will call with. I felt that my edge was post flop against these guys, not preflop.

Besides I didn't really want to start pushing preflop until I reached the final table. We were down to 18 at this point.
HijackedAffairs
QUOTE (Gallo @ Wednesday, November 1st, 2006, 2:08 PM) *
But why get into possible race situations if you can accumulate chips by playing post flop? I mean I understand what you're saying as far as pushing preflop. I'm a huge favorite over alot of the junk that the players will call with. I felt that my edge was post flop against these guys, not preflop.

Besides I didn't really want to start pushing preflop until I reached the final table. We were down to 18 at this point.

Not with such a short stack. If you are so far ahead of their calling range, moving all-in is the best play. I know DN makes his money postflop, but most of profitable low-limit tourny players make their money with preflop play. I know I do.
simo_8ball
You have 15 big blinds. You can't play post flop easily with 15bb. You are also overestimating your skill level considerably. 70% to win preflop is fantastic. Take it.
Gallo
QUOTE (simo_8ball @ Wednesday, November 1st, 2006, 5:25 PM) *
You have 15 big blinds. You can't play post flop easily with 15bb. You are also overestimating your skill level considerably. 70% to win preflop is fantastic. Take it.

My feeling on this hand at this level was wanting to extract more chips, I really didn't want to chase everyone away. I knew the repercussions if an A or K fell, but I was willing to take that chance there. With the blinds at this level I wanted to get some kind of action. Ask and ye shall receive.

Anyway, I did get played on this hand. The old man showed As6h. I got pissed off at myself for 2 things.

1. I knew I should've shoved all in on the flop. I think this was actually my biggest mistake, this way I would be left with no decision on the turn if he called or not.
2. While he was talking there was something he said that sent off alarms in my head that all he had was a pair and no clubs. I don't know why I didn't go with my read here, for the most part I have gone with my reads and have been correct a large percent of the time.

-----
Went out a few hands later when I got dealt QQ again, lost to K9 to the old man. Dang SOB.

I think what really got to me is that I know this man personally. A nice guy. I never really tried to take advantage of him, actually took it easy on him. No mas!! Doesn't really know much about poker. Heck, in the first hand of the game he thought there was a pot that he should've won because his kicker was bigger than the other guy. He held A7, the other player held A5. Board was AJ9K9
copernicus
QUOTE (Gallo @ Wednesday, November 1st, 2006, 6:32 PM) *
My feeling on this hand at this level was wanting to extract more chips, I really didn't want to chase everyone away. I knew the repercussions if an A or K fell, but I was willing to take that chance there. With the blinds at this level I wanted to get some kind of action. Ask and ye shall receive.

Anyway, I did get played on this hand. The old man showed As6h. I got pissed off at myself for 2 things.

1. I knew I should've shoved all in on the flop. I think this was actually my biggest mistake, this way I would be left with no decision on the turn if he called or not.
2. While he was talking there was something he said that sent off alarms in my head that all he had was a pair and no clubs. I don't know why I didn't go with my read here, for the most part I have gone with my reads and have been correct a large percent of the time.

-----
Went out a few hands later when I got dealt QQ again, lost to K9 to the old man. Dang SOB.

I think what really got to me is that I know this man personally. A nice guy. I never really tried to take advantage of him, actually took it easy on him. No mas!! Doesn't really know much about poker. Heck, in the first hand of the game he thought there was a pot that he should've won because his kicker was bigger than the other guy. He held A7, the other player held A5. Board was AJ9K9


I dont mind not shoving preflop to attract more money, though I agree 1k is better than 1.5k, since it gives you an easier way out, and a flop shove then gives villain weaker calling odds.

Never take it easy on anyone! the snake you don't kill is likely to come back and bite you.
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