First hand $50 SNG. $2K starting stack. Blinds $10/$20. Obv. no reads.

3 folds, MP raises to $60, 1 fold, LP raises to $150, I re-raise to $600 from C/O w/ QQ. I wanted to take the pot down right there. Here's where it gets weird. Button folds, SB folds, BB calls, then orig. raiser calls. Then the LP re-raiser moves in. I fold, and the other 2 call.

I certainly didn't want to re-raise smaller than that. It was either smooth call, or $600. I didn't want to move in b/c I thought, if I got callers, I could get away from a AK-type flop, and still have plenty of chips to fight with. Is the smooth call the better play, or is my re-raise the right move - to isolate? I'm not looking for the "right anser," just opinions.

It depends on the level of play IMO. If the players generally are goofy and have TT, JJ, AQ, AK a lot of the time when they do this then I reraise. Sorry, I guess that does not answer anything.

Once it gets back around to you though there is too much money in the pot to fold. Call his all in.

no way I'm folding QQ with that much in the pot.

w/o reads in a $50.

I like the re-raise.
I 'd probably do 500.
not that it changes anything

with that much action pf you have to decide if this is that hand you are going to go with when action gets to you. raising to 600 and folding is a bad line in an Sng.

IMO nothing wrong with a smooth call there and pushing any flop w/o and A or K.

FWIW, I'm just calling the $150 this early in an SNG. That original reraise by MP3 is usually enough to isolate down to 2 or at least 3-handed. I can get away cheap if an A or K come on the flop, and I can probably stack someone if a Q shows up. Proceed with some degree of caution (but don't give up or anything) on undercard flops with a JT flavour.

Given the action, I would not be surprised to see AA vs KK vs QQ here. Nor would I be surprised to see AK vs AK vs QQ vs spazztastic. If the villains are willing to take risks to double up on hand 1, it's a call. If they are ABC rocks, it's a fold.

I should add: With no reads, I tend to err towards the spazztastic option, call and reload if I'm wrong.

+1!11!!1

agree with all of this.

In addition to trying to take the pot down right then and there, the raise to 600 was also intended to get information. IMO calling the push would have just been ignoring the info. I collected.

Calling p/f and moving forward w/ a non-AK flop may have been the better play, but I don't think there's any way to call the all-in push. At no point in the hand was I getting 4:1, and I had to assume I was behind with all of that action.

By the way, the hands:
Orig. raiser = AK
re-raiser/pusher = AA
BB = TT

NavyButtons,

there really wasn't all that much action before we raised to 600.
Only after wards did we see a lot of action.

*************

Ben,

even though you weren't getting 4:1, you did not know you were against AA.

Even if no one else calls you are getting 3800 : 1400 on his push
He barely ever has to have AK or JJ-KK here for it to be an easy call.

***************

I know you feel the fold was based on good info.
So I won't convince you otherwise.

I just don't think I could ever be ahead in this hand. I think the pusher has AA or KK at least 90% of the time, and the rest of the time I'm flipping a coin, and will lose half of those. Maybe I'm wrong, and people make that move w/ 99, TT, JJ, but I highly doubt it.

In my post above I had for some reason switched in my head that you had KK. Although with QQ there are 16 combos of AK out and 12 combos of AA/KK.

If he only pushers with AK 1/2 the time, then say 8 combos of AK and 12 AA/KK. You are 32% against that range. And you had the odds for that. Hard to put BB or UTG on AA/KK without a re-raise and all that action. More likely they have one Ace if anything, thus increasing your odds somewhat.

but probably style difference.

It's much easier to fold this in a live tourney, I find, because most opponents want to last more than one hand. Online it's a very tough fold to make. Maybe it shouldn't be? This is a mid-price STT, after all, not a donkament.

Im folding, youre still left with 1400 if you fold so you still have chips to play. If not too worried about the 2 guys behind me as the guy who re-raises to 150 the pushed

I dont really see him having JJ or lower, and I think AA/KK are much more likely than QQ

of course, youll fell stupid if the three have TT, JJ and AQ....but oh well, I fold

I know it's a sng, but there is definitely something to be said for folding. I would estimate that only like 15-20% of the time is he NOT going to be up against AA or KK. The action says he's crushed.

1400 chips is plenty with the blinds so low. I like the fold here. Yeah, the pot odds are good, but I'm pretty sure that I'm behind here and folding seems like a good idea.

Also, I don't like smooth calling here. I'd reraise to 450 or 500. 600 seemed a little big, but not out of line.

When you all say "Action" you are basing this almsot all on the 2nd Raiser 150, then shove, right?

What do you all think he does with AK?
What % of time does he shove it, too?

I think the second best play is to smooth call PF and see a flop and hope you flop a set and MAYYYYBE hope the LP raiser has AKs and misses, or if he has AA or KK you bang aset on him and the other villian who will probably call. But that's for 150, not 600.

I have to agree with this guy below:



I agree. There was a raise, a re-raise, then you re-raised, and THEN a smooth call and THEN followed by a 4th raise all-in. If there is ever a PF 4th raise by an above average to big stack, 96% of the time it's Aces or Kings.

Plus it's a 50 dollar SNG, and unless someone has alot of gamble to them, you are at worst vs AKs; but it might be too early to race, especially if you are confident you can outplay opponents post flop. I just don't see anyone playing the first hand of a 50 dollar tournament and risking it all with JJ.

I would fold and be glad I lost 600 chips instead of 2K.

If I'm folding preflop, i'd raise to 400-450, not 600.

But you all are convincing me that we are crushed now. It's just hard to be a 74% underdog

Totally dependent on the raiser. Some like to play big pots with AK at any time - others like to SC and see a flop.

I really think its AA or KK because the raiser understands he needs to get heads up for the best chance to win, and also if he has a good hand, he knows the BB re-raises with AT LEAST a pair of Jacks so he wants to shove for value and hope the raiser thinks he has AK.

But I would assume that if someone played AK aggressively, they'd shove here because that's the purpose of the hand in tourney poker.

It's the first hand of a tournament (one that's above $20 - which is important to note) - we're not going broke with QQ here.

What's wrong with playing QQ for set or fold value here? I don't like the RR for 1/4 of our stack so early. Smooth call the 150, play set or fold.

we are ahead of a re-raisers range.
Playing for set value is sooo weak tight.
At least play for set + Overpair.
I prefer a raise preflop

My first instinct was to re-raise to 500. I thought about it for a second more, and thought 600 was somehow more intimidating or serious than 500. Kinda stupid, 'cause I don't think there's any real difference - nobody who is calling for 500 is folding for 600. Hindsight...

We're in the very first hand - what's wrong with playing a little weak tight while you get a gauge on the table? You're going to have MUCH better opportunities (both pre-flop and post-flop) than just QQ against a R/RR - so why not use a little patience?

I'd rather find out who the maniacs are at the table before making such a big raise/call/decision with a vulnerable hand like QQ.

I think with the BB coldcalling the 3 raises and then the first raiser calling them as well, the LP reraiser pretty well defines his hand. He made a very small reraise preflop and it's now back to him and it appears that 3 other people have big hands and he's pushing. IMO this is AA or KK. He could have AK I suppose. Just becuase I wouldn't push AK here doesn't mean that he won't.

No reason to go broke with QQ pre-flop this early in a $50 STT. In the lower levels where the play is more spazztastic, I'll certainly go with it, but starting at around the $20-$30 level, I'm willing to let it go in the early rounds to significant action.

ben, as played, I like your fold. As for putting in the third raise or smooth-calling, I could go either way.

I like that summary.
Assuming he's a thinking palyer, he has to think his fold equity is quite low, yet he shoves into all these 600 bettors/callers.

ok. Fold is good.

***************

IQ,

Without raising, we absolutely cannot eliminante AK/Q from his hand, and to fold on a 26T board would be really weak.

************

I'm also absolutely certain some of you are influenced by the fact he pushes.
But when we first act, we don't know he's that strong.