PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)

UTG (t2340)
UTG+1 (t2080)
MP1 (t1585)
MP2 (t4090)
MP3 (t4935)
CO (t9295)
Button (t4855)
SB (t1770)
Hero (t10530)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A , Q . UTG posts a blind of t150.
3 folds, MP3 calls t150, CO raises to t450, 1 fold, Hero calls t375, 1 fold, MP3 calls t300.

Flop: (t1500) 7 , 4 , A (4 players)
Hero bets t750, MP3 folds, CO raises to t3000, Hero????

AQ in the BB again - and again knock heads with the other big stack who has position on you.

I'd lay it down - you still have a healthy stack after this and he's shown strength both pre/post flop and is willing to tangle with the big stack.

The action is mangled. CO raises, 1 fold, and action is on you in the BB? Doesn't make sense. Your call of 375 means you were the SB. How is it?

I seriously consider folding preflop. In the SB, I probably do. Less compelling in the BB, but foldable. Maybe I'm weak-tight, but I dont like calling a raise with AQo out of position, early in a tourney and especially not against the next biggest stack when I'm still in great shape. As played, I fold to the flop raise, and look for a better spot.

I'd say you can let it go pf, especially being oop and also having the other limper in there, but maybe that's because I'm not a big fan of AQ oop. You can afford to give up 150 to someone with positition and pick your spot later.

That is silliness IMO. You are going to fold AQ just because the CO raises one limper to just 3x the BB?!? RERAISE to $900 and find out where you are in the hand and attempt to get it heads up between you and the CO.

I agree It’s hard to make sense of the hand history but if you have 10k tourney chips and the BB is only $150 how the hell can you justify folding AQ even if you’re out of position. Hands like this play much better if you are the aggressor so instead of folding you should put the tough decision back on your opponent with a reraise.

I just don’t get folding here…

The thing is, AQo sucks. Now, if the raiser is LAGgy then reraising to isolate (or more likely, win outright preflop) has merit.

As played, I sift through the memory banks trying to figure out if CO overplays AJ-A8, KK-88 like this, or if his preflop + flop raise narrows the range to TPTK or better. I think you are ahead a lot, but it depends completely on villain's tendancies.

If you determine that you are likely ahead of his range, I would call his raise and let him hang himself on the turn. If he hits one of his 2 or 3 outs, well that just sucks but it doesn't make the play wrong.

I'm with Fade.
I like a raise to 1000 preflop.


I don't like leading this flop if we simply flat called preflop.
Too many worse Aces will raise our donk bet
I"d rather c/r and get away if shoved. (edit to add: Later noted, most times a c/r would commit me... and also noted..I prefer preflop raise <emphasis>)

First of all, any hand that raises to 450, calls 450 getting over 3:1. The flop bet is going to have to be at least 1k to test him, so now you've got almost 20% of your stack in. If he smooth calls you still have no idea where you are, and if he raises big, you kind of have to lay it down.

It's early in the tourney. It's a $3 buyin tourney. You have a very deep stack. You're now butting heads with the only other player at the table who can cripple you. You have very little visibility from out of position, and you'll have to invest probably 20% of your stack to MAYBE find out where you are. I just think there are better spots. Even if I am best, I'm going to have to pay too much to find out.

I'm not a great tournament player, and maybe raising here is better than folding, but personally, I think position matters a LOT with a hand like AQo.

exactly
That's why raising preflop makes sense.
You gain visibility.
Bet-folding this flop after under-representing our hand preflop is a sure way to waste chips in a $3 tourney.

What does a smooth call tell us if we raise to 1k, and he calls getting 3:1? Raising is certainly better than calling, but I dont think our visibility is that great with a raise this small. I dont want to put a larger raise in because it's going to hurt if I have to fold. AQo really sucks OOP. If I cant small-ball it, I'd rather fold.

Yeah, much more and it makes it tough to get away from.

If I raise to 1000 preflop, I can lead an Ace flop and fold to a big raise, assuming a good read that he's not doing this with A9-AQ

If I flat call preflop, I c/r a A/Q flop and go broke on the flop.
Too many hands are behind us on an Ace or Q high flop, if we just flat call preflop.

A raise to 1000 preflop allows me to fold an Ace high flop if I lead out

If I raised to 1500 preflop, I"d go broke on an Ace or Q high flop if villain flat calls me preflop. Because, I"d really discount the chance he has AK and not re-reraise me preflop. Plus pot would be bigger and my stack smaller, than raising to 1000 preflop

Lots of typing here
To say: If we underrepresent our hand preflop, we have an opportunity post flop to win more chips against a wider range of hands; however, we also have less info. It's a trade-off. Raisng preflop builds a bigger pot but provides more info, for both players.

Meh, weird spot with the two deepstack and you being OOP but I'd probably fold or make it 1200. It's just too hard to play AQ in a big pot OOP readless unless you just nail the flop. I also am almost never leading the flop here, generally check raising.

LMAO Wrong. We get VAULABLE information! If he smooth calls we can rule out AA, KK and most likely QQ. A lot of players will even bet back AK here. So if he bets back PF we can put him confidently on one of these hands and we can fold. And if he smooth calls, you simply reassess the situation on the flop and go from there.

Clues that help you throughout the hand are everywhere - you just have to look for them.



So because you have a "big stack" that means you can't play AQ OOP? LMAO Again! The point is you can't lay down AQ's just because they get tough to play sometimes. Folding this hand here is basically saying "I don't know how to play this so I'm not going to get involved." You are ahead of so many hands and if you want to win tournaments you have to learn to deal with these types of situations. FYI Folding is not the answer

Oh and I've been to a few of these $3 MTT final tables before on stars (db "ThePayne04") and 10k is not a big stack at anytime in those tourneys - you need about 50k to give yourself a chance and about 200k when you get to the final table.



QFT

And TY for the back up - this all makes sense too.

I like the smooth call pre-flop and the C/R on the flop, folding to a shove. What would be your line if he smooth calls the C/R? Do you lead the turn if a blank falls, or do you C/C the turn?

looking closer at the stacks now.
I'm likely committed on the flop if I c/r.
Unless his flop bet and my raise are so small.

But, anyway, if he just calls the flop bet, I'm not folding later.
I"d lead the turn.

I really prefer a preflop raise though.
I only c/r flop if I had not raised preflop

Big is relative to where you're at in the tournament. You have M=50 or so. This is deep by any standard. At this point in the tournament, the average stack is probably M=20, and falling fast. You ahve hours of play in this stack. Blinds rise slowly for the next hour or so. You have twice the chips of everyone at the table except villain. How is this not a big stack? Yeah you need to chip up at some point, but you can pick your spots.

It's not that AQo is too hard to play OOP against a preflop raiser. It's that it's too expensive. There are better spots. My sharkscope stats are pretty similar to yours. Let's not drag credentials into this ok?



This is my point exactly. You can dump a lot of chips in this hand. I dont think you're wrong to play this hand, but It's nowhere near laughable to fold it. Hard to find a line against AK that doesn't decimate your stack. You cant control the pot size.

rog,

villain has AK?

and my line is to re-raise preflop.
Then I can get away if he pushes, as AA-KK/AK is apt to do.
If he has AK and he smooth calls my pf raise and an Ace flops and he flat calls my flop bet..well ok... I probably go broke on most turns and rivers. Tha'ts a lot of ifs

No worries, I won’t. I mostly suck at Sit & Go’s and isn’t that what sharkscope measures?!? I was talking about my db in MTT’s…

Anyways, I just like to play these MTT’s way more aggressively than most and that’ll come through in my posts. I don’t look for reasons to fold, I look for opportunities to increase my stack with aggressive plays and not worry about my M until it gets to <20 or it’s late in the tournament. Expensive or not - I believe that I can take this pot away from the button raiser if he misses the flop. This is less about the math to me and more about the fact that I think I can get these chips by outplaying my opponent. I think it’s a contrast in styles that’s making us disagree.

Yeah, re-raise pf is better.

We're going to have to agree to disagree. I dont think worse hands pay you off much. Better hands extract a ton of value, especially when we hit a flop like we did.