Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Live 1/2 Nl Hand
FCP Poker Forum > Poker Strategy Forum > No Limit Texas Hold'em Cash Games
TraptSteve
I was playing for a few hours at the point the hand occured. The game was 7 handed and I was 2 spots from the button.

(I obviously can't or atleast don't know how to convert a live hand, so I'll stick to the most relevant details)

I had 5-6o, so I limped as well. Person to my immediate left raises to 12$.
The button, SB, BB, and the first limper calls. I follow suit and we head to the flop -

K icon_suit_heart.gif 8 icon_suit_club.gif 7 icon_suit_heart.gif pot: 210 $

We check to the preflop raiser who bets 25$. Much to my suprise everyone calls his bet. Even though some of my outs figured to be dead, I felt that it was worth a call. Should I hit one of my bad outs, I can always c/f.

turn - 4 icon_suit_diamond.gif

Again, everyone checks around to me. In hindsight I probably should have made some sort of bet here, but I succumbed to the line of checking to bettor. He checks as does the button.

River - 8 icon_suit_diamond.gif

Again, everyone checks around. I check again.
The person to my immediate left bets 30$. Button/SB/BB fold. UTG limper raises to 100$...

What's your initial take in this situation? Do you fold/call/raise & why?
psujohn
I'm most inclined to think that UTG has something like a K or an 8 but not a boat. I think a boat leads out on the river. CO really looks like he's bluff here and UTG is looking to pick it off. Reads help a lot.
David_Nicoson
QUOTE (TraptSteve @ Thursday, October 19th, 2006, 9:21 PM) *
I was playing for a few hours at the point the hand occured. The game was 7 handed and I was 2 spots from the button.

(I obviously can't or atleast don't know how to convert a live hand, so I'll stick to the most relevant details)

I had 5-6o, so I limped as well. Person to my immediate left raises to 12$.
The button, SB, BB, and the first limper calls. I follow suit and we head to the flop -

Approximate stacks sizes would be helpful.

For me to make this call, the stacks would have to be very deep and my opponents very weak. I'm not even limping here. But onward!
QUOTE
K icon_suit_heart.gif 8 icon_suit_club.gif 7 icon_suit_heart.gif pot: 210 $

Six people see the flop for $12. That's $72 plus the small blind, minus the rake.
QUOTE
We check to the preflop raiser who bets 25$. Much to my suprise everyone calls his bet. Even though some of my outs figured to be dead, I felt that it was worth a call. Should I hit one of my bad outs, I can always c/f.

Yep. That's good logic. You're getting about 8:1 to draw to your 6 outs, which is only a 7:1 dog.
QUOTE
turn - 4 icon_suit_diamond.gif

Again, everyone checks around to me. In hindsight I probably should have made some sort of bet here, but I succumbed to the line of checking to bettor. He checks as does the button.

I agree with your statements here. If I might add, the token bet on the flop suggests to me that the PFR whiffed on this flop. So we can't really expect him to bet the turn.
QUOTE
River - 8 icon_suit_diamond.gif

Again, everyone checks around. I check again.

The person to my immediate left bets 30$. Button/SB/BB fold. UTG limper raises to 100$...

What's your initial take in this situation? Do you fold/call/raise & why?

I would've led out on the river.

PFR has a pair less than kings or Ax? Limpers has an 8 or maybe just air? The PFR bet $30 bet into a $220+ pot. That doesn't show a lot of confidence.

Well, I'm sure I don't fold. How deep are the stacks?
nomad_monad
QUOTE (psujohn @ Thursday, October 19th, 2006, 8:45 PM) *
Reads help a lot. So do stack sizes.


FYP

K, you said you knew that some of your outs could be dead with so many people calling, presumably at least one of them with a heart draw. If you called knowing this, and with the pot already pretty huge by the turn, it should have taken you less time then it takes to say "All in" to shove your chips in the center on the turn.

If this were 3, maybe 4 handed, UTG probably leads out with his boat. But since this is 6 handed, with
- at least one likely busted flush draw that might bluff
- a preflop raiser in position who hasn't been shown any strength
- and a possibly slow-played str8 (er, you)

UTG probably checks a boat a decent amount of the time. He might do the same with just an 8, but does he check-raise? (i'd actually argue that he's more likely to lead the river with just an 8, as opposed to a boat) This is where reads help, as do do stack sizes. Like, if villain has 1K sitting behind him, he might be looking to extract some extra value out of a lone 8. But if he's sitting with 200 before the c/r, this is much more likely to be a boat.

Still, you are getting about 3.5-1 to call the river raise, so call.

The only time you should consider raising is if the villain's c/r leaves him with only a fraction of his stack such that he has to call a raise even with inferior hands (whereas if he had more, he would only call a raise with a hand that beats you).
TraptSteve
Stack sizes & reads? Ah, the relevant details I forgot to give!

I was the smallest stack involved in this pot with ~ 225 $. The UTG limper had about 300 on him, and the other stack sizes range from 300- 800$.

Reads: the UTG limper was probably the least likely of the players involved to be making a play at the river. He's straight forward; usually has a quality hand when he shows aggresion post flop.

This is what concerned me when he made that raise. The question was this: Would he check a set/2pair on the turn with a straight & flush draws a multi-way pot?
nomad_monad
QUOTE (TraptSteve @ Thursday, October 19th, 2006, 9:58 PM) *
Stack sizes & reads? Ah, the relevant details I forgot to give!

I was the smallest stack involved in this pot with ~ 225 $. The UTG limper had about 300 on him, and the other stack sizes range from 300- 800$.

Reads: the UTG limper was probably the least likely of the players involved to be making a play at the river. He's straight forward; usually has a quality hand when he shows aggresion post flop.

This is what concerned me when he made that raise. The question was this: Would he check a set/2pair on the turn with a straight & flush draws a multi-way pot?


Well, the str8 draw already hit, so he may have figured that he could get a decent price to draw to a boat by check-calling (maybe even getting a free card), or he could have been waiting to c/r and get it all in.

I still call the river. Odds are good enough. Plus, being a straightforward player, he may have figured that if someone had a str8 on the turn, they would have bet it, hence making a river raise with a lone 8 not that unreasonable.

Others might say raise here though since your stack is small enough where the villain is likely committed into calling a raise, which is a fair point. But given that you view UTG as the most likely person to have a quality hand, I think I'd rather try and get extra value by hopefully having the button overcall getting more than 6-1.
David_Nicoson
QUOTE (TraptSteve @ Friday, October 20th, 2006, 12:58 AM) *
This is what concerned me when he made that raise. The question was this: Would he check a set/2pair on the turn with a straight & flush draws a multi-way pot?

Well, you've demonstrated that it's certainly possible for a check-raise attempt to go wrong here. He could be on the same line. He also could be raising small with a boat because he perceives that the PFR is too weak to call a larger bet.

That said, I think the most likely scenario is a value bet with trip eights. I don't think we'll get an overcall, so I favor pushing the river. The fact that you posted the hand makes me suspect he had a boat, but that's not really fair for me to factor in.
Acid_Knight
Bet the turn to get more money into the pot.

I think either pushing or calling is fine on the river. It's unlikely he had a boat. He could have had like 89 or something, was getting good pot odds to draw to 2 pair or trips on the flop and figured he nailed it on the river.

You're not folding, but I think I favor smooth calling, becuase then the guy who bet $30 on the river will get huge odds to call there.
TraptSteve
I was going to wait another day to post the results, but I think the feedback thus far has been usefull enough.

Considering the villian didn't raise the 25$ bet on the flop with only one person behind him to act (me), then checking the turn & river... I felt it would be almost retarded to do that holding a set/ 2pair. I felt he had the goods when he made the his play on the river, it just depended on whether he'd be confident enough to do this with only trips.

I decided to flat call; he had 7-7 for a Full Hizzie

Sickness
No_Neck
QUOTE (TraptSteve @ Friday, October 20th, 2006, 8:13 PM) *
I was going to wait another day to post the results, but I think the feedback thus far has been usefull enough.

Considering the villian didn't raise the 25$ bet on the flop with only one person behind him to act (me), then checking the turn & river... I felt it would be almost retarded to do that holding a set/ 2pair. I felt he had the goods when he made the his play on the river, it just depended on whether he'd be confident enough to do this with only trips.

I decided to flat call; he had 7-7 for a Full Hizzie

Sickness



next time the river won't pair and you can take his stack. Welcome BTW
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2012 Invision Power Services, Inc.