It is now legal to arrest, torture, and murder without a trial American citizens

Personally i think MY rights as an American were taken away the moment that the ACLU or people like yourself take up arms against my country out of a self loathing hatred of your country.

Incorrect. This is a link to a little explanation behind why it doesn't apply to American citizens, which comes from paul phillips' journal. There are enough reasons to hate this without exaggerating and making Hitler references.
Thanks for the laugh. Was this on the Factor tonight?

Sorry I don't watch it. Just my opinion. When the ACLU is selective in who they go after they lose their credability. (ie: illegals getting the same rights as citizens or defending every religion EXCEPT christianity which is the predominat religion here. Please look up the case of the muslim call to prayer being ok but Christmas displays being unethical.)

I just don't have much tolerance for uninformed liberal rants that think this country is so terrible. They need to get off of their asses and go fro a trip around the world to really see what oppression is. If you can point out a country that has freed more people or given out more aid to the other countries of the world , please do so.

I hate uninformed people too.

Sorry I don't watch it. Just my opinion. When the ACLU is selective in who they go after they lose their credability. [1] (ie: illegals getting the same rights as citizens or defending every religion EXCEPT christianity which is the predominat religion here. Please look up the case of the muslim call to prayer being ok but Christmas displays being unethical.)

I just don't have much tolerance for uninformed liberal rants that think this country is so terrible. [2] They need to get off of their asses and go fro a trip around the world to really see what oppression is. If you can point out a country that has freed more people or given out more aid to the other countries of the world , please do so.

Your link lost credability as soon as someone from the ACLU was quoted. So exactly which one of your rights was taken away? Are you at Gitmo? are you a foreign fighter? Pleese elaborate.

Personally i think MY rights as an American were taken away the moment that the ACLU or people like yourself take up arms against my country out of a self loathing hatred of your country.

BTW while you have your tinfoil hat on you may want to tell me why the evil Bush Supreme court decided to rewrite the Geneva Convention so that applies to combatants who belong to no country and why, if this is a mass conspiracy, would dictator Bush allow this to happen.

Oh and please don't use the Hitler analogy. It only mkaes you look ignorant.

1. A fair point, but I wasn't arguing that at all; the ACLU openly admits that they have a bias for the minority. You said that the ACLU hates America. The ACLU (and other watchdog organizations) play a vital role in making sure that our government doesn't overstep its bounds. I am not a huge fan of everything the ACLU has done, but one must recognize that those types of groups aren't motivated by hate.

2. There are offenders from both sides of the aisle. A good example from the right would be the claim that the ACLU hates America.

It's people like you that have made me give up almost all hope for our country and for the political process in general. As long as people vote with blinders this big on, we stand no chance.

The day we decided to start giving up our freedoms was the day that we stopped being the greatest country in the world.

Let me share with you a couple of quotes from our Founding Fathers....

"He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." -Thomas Paine

"This country will not be a good place for any of us to live in unless we make it a good place for all of us to live in." -Theodore Roosevelt

(I ask you, how could a country that is willing to torture ANYONE ever be a good place to live in?)

"They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

Trust me I dont need a civics lesson or a lesson on torture. So from your quotes I am guessing we should not even bother to try to catch or question the "bad guys" because we may infringe upon their "freedoms"? so basically its a free for all?

I am curious which rights you've lost.

Please define torture.

What level of questioning is appropraite to save 100-1000- 100000000 lives?

1. A fair point, but I wasn't arguing that at all; the ACLU openly admits that they have a bias for the minority. You said that the ACLU hates America. The ACLU (and other watchdog organizations) play a vital role in making sure that our government doesn't overstep its bounds. I am not a huge fan of everything the ACLU has done, but one must recognize that those types of groups aren't motivated by hate.

2. There are offenders from both sides of the aisle. A good example from the right would be the claim that the ACLU hates America.

Didn't mean to say that the ACLU hated us although i beleive there are individuals in the organization who would love to see the US have its balls removed,lol. I was refering the liberal haters.

I agree that you need organization like the ACLU but I just feel that there hypocracy outweighs their usefullness currently. There are other organizations that do a better job of policing with les of an agenda.
Trust me I dont need a civics lesson or a lesson on torture. So from your quotes I am guessing we should not even bother to try to catch or question the "bad guys" because we may infringe upon their "freedoms"? so basically its a free for all?

I am curious which rights you've lost.

Please define torture.

What level of questioning is appropraite to save 100-1000- 100000000 lives?

Hell, if Bush had spent a little less time on the ranch in Texas and a little more time governing 9/11 may not have happened.

So cool as an american citizen i guess we're all happy to torture and kill anyone not american - this makes me feel proud to be free

whether you are a terrorist freedom fighter or a war criminal depends on whether you win in the long run

care to elaborate?

Just to help you on your search.....

The US share of the UN budget
The United States is assessed for the regular budget at the ceiling rate of 22 percent, which in 2006 was $423,464,855 of the total $1,924,840,250. This works out to be a contribution of about $1.42 per American citizen, according to 2006 census data. Japan, the second largest contributor to the regular budget at 19.47 percent, pays $374,727,900 or about $3.94 per citizen in comparison.

For the peacekeeping budget, the US is assessed 27 percent. In 2005, this amounted to about $1.28 billion, but by the end of 2005, the US still owed $521 million of that $1.28 billion to the UN for peacekeeping dues.
We are so evil that we even support the corrupt UN who does their best at every turn to undermine the US. So while the Secretary General does nothing about the Oil for Food scandal we STILL send money to their major programs.

So yes we truly are an evil horrible dictatorship that does nothing for anyone. What a horrible horrible country.

Get off Your Retard Horse You phuck job

Fact:
The U.N. has always had problems with members refusing to pay the assessment levied upon them under the United Nations Charter. But the most significant refusal in recent times has been that of the U.S. For a number of years, the U.S. Congress refused to authorize payment of the U.S. dues, in order to force U.N. compliance with U.S. wishes, as well as a reduction in the U.S. assessment

Fact:
from 1995-2005 the US is 1.2 billion in debt to the UN

Fact

Canada is #7 for contributions to the UN, and its #35 in the world for highest population countries.
with 31 million people living in Canada , thats about the same population of California. Put that in perspective

Not to mention, this is only UN we're talking about. You wanna stretch back 120 years and go over things?

Canada is #7 for contributions to the UN, and its #35 in the world for highest population countries.
with 31 million people living in Canada , thats about the same population of California. Put that in perspective

Not to mention, this is only UN we're talking about. You wanna stretch back 120 years and go over things?

Your link lost credability as soon as someone from the ACLU was quoted. So exactly which one of your rights was taken away? Are you at Gitmo? are you a foreign fighter? Pleese elaborate.

Personally i think MY rights as an American were taken away the moment that the ACLU or people like yourself take up arms against my country out of a self loathing hatred of your country.

BTW while you have your tinfoil hat on you may want to tell me why the evil Bush Supreme court decided to rewrite the Geneva Convention so that applies to combatants who belong to no country and why, if this is a mass conspiracy, would dictator Bush allow this to happen.

Oh and please don't use the Hitler analogy. It only mkaes you look ignorant.

Get off Your Retard Horse You phuck job

Fact:
The U.N. has always had problems with members refusing to pay the assessment levied upon them under the United Nations Charter. But the most significant refusal in recent times has been that of the U.S. For a number of years, the U.S. Congress refused to authorize payment of the U.S. dues, in order to force U.N. compliance with U.S. wishes, as well as a reduction in the U.S. assessment

Fact:
from 1995-2005 the US is 1.2 billion in debt to the UN

Fact

Canada is #7 for contributions to the UN, and its #35 in the world for highest population countries.
with 31 million people living in Canada , thats about the same population of California. Put that in perspective

Not to mention, this is only UN we're talking about. You wanna stretch back 120 years and go over things?

Summary- the US courts tried to fight Bush's new designation of American citizens as potential UECs and lost. Now you can be charged as a UEC. Hurray for Fascism!!!

I suppose I'll humor your repugnant idiocy since I did start this thread. While we're calling names, let me state that Im pretty damn sure that people like you would have supported Hitler all the way through the 30s and probably beyond, and people like me would be vilified or worse as they opposed him.

Shouldn’t it be “Hitler couldn’t be more proud.”

I suppose I'll humor your repugnant idiocy since I did start this thread. While we're calling names, let me state that Im pretty damn sure that people like you would have supported Hitler all the way through the 30s and probably beyond, and people like me would be vilified or worse as they opposed him.

Here are my rights that were or have been taken away-

-The govt has arbitrary power to declare anyone, including US citizens on US soil, as unlawful enemy combatants*.

-The government has made up the term "unlawful enemy combatants" out of thin air so they dont have to follow well-established international law reguarding civilian criminals or enemies of war.

-UECs do not have the right to see the evidence against them or even be told what they are charged with.

-UECs do not have the right to a lawyer or to present evidence in their defense.

-The US govt reserves the right to torture UECs for any reason. But dont worry, they will only use moderate torture means(wink, wink).

-Confessions or accusations extracted under torture are permissible under the tribunals that they might eventually try them under.

-The government is under no obligation to ever try UECs at all if they dont want to.

-Hearsay evidence is permitted as evidence against UECs

-If they do get around to trying the UEC, that person can be sentenced to death based on testimony extracted from them or others through torture.

As for explanations why, I am not going to bother. It is people with your mindset, not mine, that enacted these laws. So why dont you explain it.

And, yes, I used the Hitler analogy on purpose. If there was EVER a time to use it, this would be it. I dont see how you can describe these new laws as anything but Hitleresque. I would hope that the fact that there is technically now no legal distinction between NAZI germany and the US justice system would wake some people up, but Im not holding my breath. The Germans were probably for the most part just like your average American(I mean that in a bad way in case there is any doubt). The only difference now is your probability of being tried under the new laws. But strangely enough, those probabilities have shown a distinct tendency to greatly rise in any country that has ever enacted laws like these.


*for those who havent been paying attention the last few years-
- The November 13, 2001, Military Order, mentioned above, exempts U.S. citizens from trial by military tribunals to determine if they are "unlawful combatants", which indicates that Padilla and Yaser Hamdi would end up in the civilian criminal justice system, as happened with John Walker Lindh.
- On December 18, 2003, the U.S. Second Circuit Court of Appeals declared that the Bush Administration lacked the authority to detain a U.S. citizen arrested on U.S. soil as an "illegal enemy combatant" without clear congressional authorization (per 18 U.S.C. § 4001(a)); it consequently ordered the government to release Padilla from military custody within thirty days[32]. But agreed that he could be held until an appeal was heard.
- On February 20, 2004, the Supreme Court agreed to hear the government's appeal.
- The Supreme Court heard the case, Rumsfeld v. Padilla, in April 2004, but on June 28 it was thrown out on a technicality. The court declared that New York State, where the case was originally filed, was an improper venue and that the case should have been filled in South Carolina, where Padilla was being held.
- On February 28, 2005, in Spartanburg, South Carolina, U.S. District Judge Henry Floyd ordered the Bush administration to either charge Padilla or release him[33]. He relied on the Supreme Court's ruling in the parallel enemy combatant case of Yaser Hamdi (Hamdi v. Rumsfeld), in which the majority decision declared a "state of war is not a blank check for the president when it comes to the rights of the nation's citizens."
- On July 19, 2005, in Richmond, Virginia, the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals began hearing the government's appeal of the lower court (the District of South Carolina, at Charleston) ruling by Henry F. Floyd, District Judge, (CA-04-2221-26AJ). Their ruling Decided: September 9, 2005 was that "the President does possess such authority pursuant to the Authorization for Use of Military Force Joint Resolution enacted by Congress in the wake of the attacks on the United States of September 11, 2001. Accordingly, the judgment of the district court is reversed."[34]

Summary- the US courts tried to fight Bush's new designation of American citizens as potential UECs and lost. Now you can be charged as a UEC. Hurray for Fascism!!!

1. A fair point, but I wasn't arguing that at all; the ACLU openly admits that they have a bias for the minority. You said that the ACLU hates America. The ACLU (and other watchdog organizations) play a vital role in making sure that our government doesn't overstep its bounds. I am not a huge fan of everything the ACLU has done, but one must recognize that those types of groups aren't motivated by hate.

2. There are offenders from both sides of the aisle. A good example from the right would be the claim that the ACLU hates America.

when you start a post like that nothing else you say matters.

I already consider you a lost cause. Nothing I say would matter to you anyway.

Im hoping to reach a few of the more reasonable people on this site. But really, since most people dont pay attention to much of anything, Im mostly just posting for my own amusement.

Sure please feel free to do so.

So tell me where the UN would be without the US money? And I am very aware of the debt issue. I figure they owe us a little so they should be able to overlook that.

What does Canada have to do with this conversation?

Now I want you to take a deep breath and try not to spout off cyber-profanity and tell me what was "retarded" about was in that info I posted.

I already consider you a lost cause. Nothing I say would matter to you anyway.

Im hoping to reach a few of the more reasonable people on this site. But really, since most people dont pay attention to much of anything, Im mostly just posting for my own amusement.

Check the Geneva Convention for the enemy combatant issue. Then check your history. In the mid 70's there weere Americans who went ot Africa as mercenaries and guess what protection they had under the GC......ZIP. Go read the the document a and then you will understand where the term came from.

As a mercenary you have zero rights. You are not a citizen. You are not a soldier of a country so you are stuck in limbo.

As far as your assumption that Bush somehow controls the courts you are being selective. He has far from used everything he could within his power to change things. If we officially declared war and you did something against the country you could be shot or hanged for treason with a fraction of the trouble we go through now to prosecute someone. So things could be far "worse" than you would like.
And once again your Hitler analogy is moronic. Please take a trip to a few concentration camps or how about just picking up a history book to get some perspective. Comparing wire taps and the handling of enemy combatants to the death of millions and genocide is insane. Serioulsy push yourself away from the computer and get some air.

Just watch out because the eveil Bush internet monitors may read what you've been writing and may be waiting on you. If you see black helicopters RUN!!!!!

Umm, what? the UN was first created by the US, UK, Soviet Union, Republic of China, France (allied forces)

after WWII, the prosperity of the US was huge. Why not take this opportunity to have some sort of powerfull voice over the world and its countries.
I'd love to hear someone who thinks the US funds the UN for everyone elses benefit and none of their own.

What benefit is the UN providing that is worth that much to the US? And in case you missed it there was another super power after WW II.

There is a benefit to every union butn you may want to dig deeper on the forming of the UN and why it came about.

Your link lost credability as soon as someone from the ACLU was quoted.

So exactly which one of your rights was taken away? Are you at Gitmo? are you a foreign fighter? Pleese elaborate.

Personally i think MY rights as an American were taken away the moment that the ACLU or people like yourself take up arms against my country out of a self loathing hatred of your country.

Your first 2 paragraphs make zero sense so I wont respond to them.

Considering that things have become "far worse" in the last five years, your assertion that they could be even worse isnt that reassuring.

You're right. The Hitler analogy is way overused. So from now on I'll just save it for special occasions, like when we revoke the Bill of Rights and international anti-torture laws.

Also, you are forgetting your history. The black UN helicopters are on our side. Your side drags people away in the middle of the night.

Umm, what? the UN was first created by the US, UK, Soviet Union, Republic of China, France (allied forces)

after WWII, the prosperity of the US was huge. Why not take this opportunity to have some sort of powerfull voice over the world and its countries.
I'd love to hear someone who thinks the US funds the UN for everyone elses benefit and none of their own.

when you start a post like that nothing else you say matters.

I love people like you. Dont you realize that no matter which option the US took, i.e. support or not support the UN, you'd be bashing them? Typically, "you people" have no solution. Thats why you are and always will be the kids in the back of the classroom complaining.

Or maybe so you can say "I told you so!" as we're being herded into an oven by a pitchfork wielding republican.

I love people like you. Dont you realize that no matter which option the US took, i.e. support or not support the UN, you'd be bashing them? Typically, "you people" have no solution. Thats why you are and always will be the kids in the back of the classroom complaining.

how do Republicans keep their majority and for that matter even stay competitive over so many years in Congress and the Presidential elections. Every non-partisan board I visit (yahoo, and well.. I really don't visit many) are vehemently against Republicans. Generally, aside from the big talk radio ratings' leaders and Bill O' it seems everyone who's anyone hates Bush and Republican (conservatives)

Is it a youth thing?
Is it that the Republicans are less likely to post or voice opinions?

I'm trying to present a neutral statement here.
It seems anyone, who visits America and crawled out from under a rock, would be hard pressed to imagine the electorate is basically split.