PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)

SB (t5735)
BB (t10155)
UTG (t1878)
WrongWay (t5605)
CO (t5490)
Button (t12885)

Preflop: WrongWay is MP with Q , Q .
1 fold, WrongWay raises to t600, 1 fold, Button calls t600, 1 fold, BB calls t400.

Flop: (t1900) 4 , 4 , 8 (3 players)
BB checks, WrongWay bets t2000, Button raises to t4000, BB folds,

I push.

That minraise absolutely wants to be called...with your stack size there's no way he thinks you're folding. Button thinks he has you. I wouldn't be surprised if he had Aces or Kings, but I think you have to push after that bet.

Anyone think a bet of about 1000 is better on the flop? Or even a push? You're pot committed here I think, so I suppose it doesn't really matter.

Pot bets are for losers.

Bet 1300-1500 on the flop. Hope to get raised by the big stack, push your QQ all in.

This is 6 handed, QQ on an 844 flop? Your stack could be 2million, you are getting it all in.

QFT

There are no draws to price out

Do what the man says

QQ - 6 handed with a paired lowball flop?

Push and pray you get a call every time.

not much matters on this hand. I generally prefer a larger pf raise with big stack on the button and JJ or QQ, i dont want his weak A to be able to call. However you get all the money in works for me with that flop though.

I think it 77/99-JJ quite a bit more than AA/KK here

But yeah, shove now.

And you know, I don't mind the flop over bet, it may actually look more like AK than a 1200 bet would. So we entice a min raise here.

Maybe comes down to which bet really make button raise his 99 more often?

I will argue till I'm blue in the face that smaller bets get raised more than bigger bets.

its situational, certain people see small raises as weakness. spot these people at the table, and next time you hit a hand you know is good that you may want to check and slowplay throw that small bet out there and watch them take the bait......they will learn their lesson.

Words of wisdom from Holyfield.

I like you.

My real argument is that pot sized bets are usually stupid. Bet 60-80% consistently. And small bets will always get raised more than big bets, it just makes sense. I'm not advocating ridiculously small bets, that's stupid too.

Thanks for the discussion.

Why are pot sized bets stupid?

Anyway, too soon to post results?

Normally this would be a little soon, but we are all in agreement here so I don't think it would much matter.

Pot size bets (especially in tournaments) eat up too much of your stack. Sure they are great when you have a calling station and you want calls, but if you want to bet consistently even when you miss, pot betting when you miss hurts a lot.

When I see a "pot better" I label them quickly and hope to hit a hand on them because they are going to pay me nicely.

Thanks. Makes a lot of sense. I've been doing pot sized bets hoping to chase out people on a draw. Unless I hit a big pot early, I can only move on 1 or 2 pots before I'm short stack.

I'll back it off to 60%-ish for a bit, and see if play improves.



As for the small pre-flop, we were getting bubble-ish. If I recall, I was 6 of 11 in a 45 player tourney that pays top 7. I wanted to have an idea what the flop brought prior to pushing.


As for reuslts:

WrongWay raises to t5005, Button calls t1005.

WrongWay67: shows Q Q
Button: shows K K

Turn: (t11910) 5 (2 players)

River: (t11910) 7 (2 players)

Final Pot: t11910

Button won (11910)

Yeah, well sometimes you run QQ into KK 6 handed and the flop is ragged.

I just hit the Q.

Yeah... I figured that was my biggest mistake.


Seriously, I just wanted confirmation that I shouldn't have been afraid of KK, AA. Poker books that I've read have said that if your not willing to broke on a hand like this, then you're leaving too much on the table too often.

Wasn't sure of the 6 out of 11 where tourney that pays 7 should override everything else that says get all the chips in as quickly as possible. Of course, by the time I had half my stack in, I was no longer going to be on the bubble.

But when the pot sized bet gets raised because he puts you on AK, it's a bigger re-raise than the raise of a 60% bet, creating a bigger pot that is more diffcult for villain to get away from when you shove.

anyone slow play this preflop like button?

I might against a loose aggresive raiser who will slow down only after shown counter-aggression
But, I"m almost always going to 2000 here

I probably never slowplay this. I'd go to 2000 as well. I don't like slowplaying PF in general, especially with KK, all that can happen is seeing an A and playing the hand real defensively and possibly losing it.

I think pot sized bets suck because usually when betting you are continuation betting. And you usually have nothing, so when you do get raised you are losing a bigger amount. From my experience pot betting got me into trouble, I haven't read anywhere that says it's wrong, I just think it is. I watch successful people do it and can't believe it. Usually they are much LAGier than me though.

The only time I pot bet is heads up deepstacked, or in a big pot where I'm committing myself.

I couldn't agree more and don't understand why more players don't bet less. There's no legitimate reason, unless you know with absolute certainty that villain's drawing, to bet the pot when 2/3 or 3/4 accomplishes the same thing. You save yourself chips when forced to fold and you avoid bloating the pot with marginal holdings.

I've heard that observant players will put you on air more often if you bet 2/3 instead of pot, but that's ridiculous because observant players will notice that you always bet approximately 2/3. You run into trouble when betting the minimum or like 1/2.

It just depends on my read of the player...If I think I can give him a bit of rope to hang himself because hes very aggressive, then I'll flat call with it..I'll also do it on occasion out of the blinds with a medium stack player who will commit himself w/ a continuation bet..Obviously its a bit risky if an A flops, but depeding on the scenario, I'll do it