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throwemaway
Villain has been loose, seeing lots of flops..Open pushed on a AJ9 board w/ Q10, got called by 99 and turned a straight to double up..I wasn't sure if the call meant he flopped it, or was drawing to the nut flush..What do you think?

Edit: My turn bet does put him all in

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP3 (t6140)
CO (t8010)
Button (t3255)
SB (t8410)
BB (t4125)
UTG (t3390)
UTG+1 (t2375)
MP1 (t2795)
Hero (t5000)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 9, 8.
UTG calls t150, 2 folds, Hero calls t150, 2 folds, Button calls t150, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t750) T, 7, J (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets t450, Hero raises to t1250, Button calls t1250, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds.

Turn: (t3700) Q (2 players)
Hero bets t1855
simo_8ball
I think I would play it the same. I hate the thought of smooth calling the flop, I hate pushing the flop. I hate checking the turn.
Zach6668
Standard in my books.
copernicus
If he didnt flop the flush, the Q could well be a higher straight.

I would just call the flop. Hes already priced himself out of the flush draw. If the turn is innocent, your hand value is well disguised. If its not you can get out of the hand cheaply.

The Q turns, I check and either call or fold depending on the size.
tskillz187
QUOTE (copernicus @ Sunday, October 8th, 2006, 5:13 PM) *
If he didnt flop the flush, the Q could well be a higher straight.

I would just call the flop. Hes already priced himself out of the flush draw. If the turn is innocent, your hand value is well disguised. If its not you can get out of the hand cheaply.

The Q turns, I check and either call or fold depending on the size.


No raise PF with AK?

I think this is a scary spot, but these are situations in which you go broke in poker. He could easily have flush or the naked spade, but I'm paying to find out.
Zach6668
QUOTE (copernicus @ Sunday, October 8th, 2006, 8:13 PM) *
If he didnt flop the flush, the Q could well be a higher straight.

I would just call the flop. Hes already priced himself out of the flush draw. If the turn is innocent, your hand value is well disguised. If its not you can get out of the hand cheaply.

The Q turns, I check and either call or fold depending on the size.

That's retarded.

That means he has to have AK or K9.

AK would have raised preflop.

K icon_suit_spade.gif 9x is the only possible hand he could have that the Q scares us with.
IQCrash
Agreed w/ Zach, the Queen is not a scare card for me. He either flopped the flush and is smooth calling his way to victory, or he's got two pair, maybe QK with the spade. Unless a fourth spade drops or he shows super aggression, I'm going broke here.
tskillz187
QUOTE (IQCrash @ Sunday, October 8th, 2006, 6:53 PM) *
Agree with tskillz187


FYP
gobears
I take the same line - can't give a free card if he's on a flush draw and his lead postflop could easily indicate Jx or maybe the naked As.

Just bad luck if he flopped a flush.
Bizzle
You guys are typically good at this. That being said, I'm a little surprised.
QUOTE (copernicus @ Sunday, October 8th, 2006, 8:13 PM) *
I would just call the flop. Hes already priced himself out of the flush draw. If the turn is innocent, your hand value is well disguised. If its not you can get out of the hand cheaply.

Calling here is bad unless you plan on folding the hand even if another spade doesn't hit. What's to prevent the naked As from showing up in any of the 3 hands behind us?
QUOTE (gobears @ Monday, October 9th, 2006, 3:18 AM) *
I take the same line - can't give a free card if he's on a flush draw and his lead postflop could easily indicate Jx or maybe the naked As.

Just bad luck if he flopped a flush.

So on a pop-repop-cold call 2 bets for 40% of villian's stack you don't think they have the flush? The raise to 1250 should be an information raise...you have it, now use it.
copernicus
"What's to prevent the naked As from showing up in any of the 3 hands behind us?"

Nothing, thats why I like calling and not raising. If there is no made flush then there may be another limp or two behind and if a blank hits the turn you still have the chips to price out a river draw.

As it is youve baited Button into the pot so he has to call the river.

There are two objectives in this hand...limit draws to 1 card, and not go down in flames to a made flush on the flop. Calling the flop and raising the turn is a far better way to do that than raising given the stacks.
throwemaway
QUOTE (copernicus @ Monday, October 9th, 2006, 7:27 AM) *
"What's to prevent the naked As from showing up in any of the 3 hands behind us?"

Nothing, thats why I like calling and not raising. If there is no made flush then there may be another limp or two behind and if a blank hits the turn you still have the chips to price out a river draw.

As it is youve baited Button into the pot so he has to call the river.

There are two objectives in this hand...limit draws to 1 card, and not go down in flames to a made flush on the flop. Calling the flop and raising the turn is a far better way to do that than raising given the stacks.



Wouldn't just calling the initial bet give correct odds to a player behind me w/ the single A of spades? Thats why I raised, to price that out
Bizzle
QUOTE (throwemaway @ Monday, October 9th, 2006, 11:43 AM) *
Wouldn't just calling the initial bet give correct odds to a player behind me w/ the single A of spades? Thats why I raised, to price that out

Bingo.

Copper's line here is pretty contradictory. If you call here, and a turn comes a safe card and villian leads for 750, how are you not shoving and going broke to a flopped flush? Is there any conceivable way that this happens? While I admit that the As might want to tag along since you've made the pot grow pretty quickly, I don't think there is any chance of folding to a flush if you don't raise the flop.
throwemaway
QUOTE (Bizzle @ Monday, October 9th, 2006, 7:50 AM) *
Bingo.

Copper's line here is pretty contradictory. If you call here, and a turn comes a safe card and villian leads for 750, how are you not shoving and going broke to a flopped flush? Is there any conceivable way that this happens? While I admit that the As might want to tag along since you've made the pot grow pretty quickly, I don't think there is any chance of folding to a flush if you don't raise the flop.


That being said, when the button smooth calls a bet, re raise, do you think this is a flopped flush enough to make check/folding the right play on the turn, if he pushes or bets like 900/1000?

Or.. I check, he checks..

River blank...Hero?
copernicus
QUOTE (throwemaway @ Monday, October 9th, 2006, 11:43 AM) *
Wouldn't just calling the initial bet give correct odds to a player behind me w/ the single A of spades? Thats why I raised, to price that out


Yes, the As has an easier call when you just call. The problem is even a naked As sees 12 outs and your raise isnt likely to shake him either. Then the pot has grown to the point where drawing on the flop is attractive, even a little short on odds. I would rather save the chips till the turn and really price out the As if the blank hits. Meanwhile you may draw in other hands to sweeten the pot just as much as the raise did. The only risk is that a raise would have chased a lesser spade if the A isnt out there.
Bizzle
QUOTE (Bizzle @ Monday, October 9th, 2006, 8:34 AM) *
So on a pop-repop-cold call 2 bets for 40% of villian's stack you don't think they have the flush? The raise to 1250 should be an information raise...you have it, now use it.

QUOTE (throwemaway @ Monday, October 9th, 2006, 11:55 AM) *
That being said, when the button smooth calls a bet, re raise, do you think this is a flopped flush enough to make check/folding the right play on the turn, if he pushes or bets like 900/1000?

Or.. I check, he checks..

River blank...Hero?

I sort of addressed this in the earlier post. Read on villian would be fairly important, but I'd prolly check-fold the turn and check-call the river. I think if he checks the turn it raises the likelihood of the As in his range, and if he shoves the turn it makes the flush more likely.
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