I've been meaning to post this situation, I think I figured out what the correct play is, but I want to know what u guys think.

Final table of a 30r or 50r I forget, Im 2nd in chips with 500k, my immediate left is on absolute fire and has 1 mil, other guy 34k, other guy 180k, and one with 200k...so basically I have HU almost guaranteed I think. Now, in tournament theory if i'm going for the win, how do you play this situation:

Folds to me in the SB with AJ, 5 handed blinds 8k/16k. Lets suppose that if you limp he makes it 50 every time, and if you open raise to 50 he makes it 200k or puts you all in with a huuuge range maybe Q10 and up and every pair, the rest of the hands he's just smooth calling to see a flop...

Considering the given info, how would you go about playing the hand.

I limp rr'd all in btw.

Ugh. Why? 500k into a 60k pot? He can obviously only call you with hands that have you crushed, and picking up 50k doesn't do much for you. I suppose from a meta standpoint you want him to not be able to raise pre every time you're in a blind/blind battle, but the risk/reward to this play is just not favorable. I'd much prefer raising to 50k, having him make it 150 or whatever, then shoving. At least that way you stand to make something for the risk you're taking.

So BB is super aggressive? I like raise-4-betting too. You probably have the best hand, and you have a better chance of pricing in a worse A or a 40/60 dog with a 280K pot than a 70K pot. Alternatively, if he folds to the all-in, you win 200K from his stack instead of 50K.

If he has JJ+, AQ+, that's poker.

I'm with Mike on this one. Limp-reraising here narrows down the range of hands that he calls with, whereas leading into him, if he is repopping you with a large range of hands, then you can either shove or call knowing that his range is huge. A limp-reraise here is going to narrow the range of hands where all of the money ends up in the middle, which is clearly something you don't want against this agropsycho.

Folding, or just limp-calling, in this spot wouldn't be awful options. Your equity probably rises if you wait for 2 people to lose and only lose 50k in chips. Limp-calling isn't something I would do, but you have zero problems with playing tough hands OOP .

Overall though, based on information given, knowing how wide his range is, leading into him is probably the right play.

I hate just folding, thats too weak imo, limp calling is kinda asking for trouble, I have no problem limp calling 46o but AJ is tough to play since A high is often good HU.

Bel0wAbove said he'd play it just the same as I did, but he's also a maniac...I guess in this case I'm going broke every time, but yea in the long run the best play is just to raise and hope he rr's. The only problem of just raising is when he decides to smooth call, now it comits me to playing a big pot post flop oop. I guess the reason I l/rr'd was to freeze him out of playing hands like Q10 or 910 post flop, in hindsight though the risk of him having a better hand sucks cuz I'm usually busting if I get called.

In this case I think Im going broke any way I play it since he did have AQ and the flop was Q10x (and we all know I'm a sucker for gutshots)...but this situation doesnt come up too often outsid of sit n gos so I wanted to get people's opinion on this.

Your definition doesnt give his calling range to a reraise all-in. Lets assume its the same as his 200k raising range...all pairs and QT+ (17% of all hands). I'll also accept your premise that 1st place is all that matters, though in a 30 or 50 rebuy I think thats most likely a mistake with these chip positions.

The range you give him conventiently makes it a 50/50 hot and cold situation if all of the money goes in. In that case, allowing him to see the flop (assuming he is a good post flop player) gives him an escape with less than 50/50 chances and an edge the rest of the time. That makes letting him see a flop a mistake.

Limp reraise is therefore the right move. He commits more of his chips on average, and you dont give away anything post-flop.

Edit: If his calling range to your all-in narrows beyond the top 17% then raising is the right play, because it gives you FE for the difference between his raising range and his calling your repush range)

We assume that this is true.

Yea well his calling range for half of his already monster stack is way tighter, maybe AA-88 (possibly 77 and 66) and AK-AQ. Not much more imo, even though he is a luckbox donk that might take a retarded gamble with 44,22, or QK.

I dont mind getting called by a small pair really, but obv the problem comes when he calls with AQ,AK JJ-AA....should this be a risk I should be willing to take to avoid playing postflop?

Also, Copernicus, I'm curious as to why you think playing for 1st is a mistake in this tourney?

you all disgust me

JC-

I like a limp/raise here as well. You said we are assuming that if we limp, he will make it 50k. I would probably re-raise to either 200k or 250k. If he pushes, I think we can still fold, because we would still have 250k or 300k behind, which is still good enough for second. If he smooth calls, I think we can c/f if we miss the flop, because again, we're not that desperate.

I agree that playing for first is the objective, but at this FT, with the other stack sizes, I think it is more important to focus on getting HU, or even to the final three, where your style will give you the advantage.

What do you think? Please let me know if I am wrong.

Firstly, given how aggressive this guy is, we are going broke if he has us beat preflop. I don't see any way we can extract enough info to fold while keeping any effective chipstack. We need to find out how to make as much as possible from his weaker hands.

The l/rr means you have to raise to about $150-200k or you push. Pushing seems like too much of an overbet to be comfortable, but he could just call a $150k raise and give us an awkward situation on the flop.

Opening for $50k means we will see a lot more flops OOP, but that isn't horrendous if you are comfortable playing postflop. Stacks are deep enough to make it playable. If he reraises to $200k he will probably fold quite a few hands to our allin.

Overall, I think his reraising range is wide enough that leading out gives us the most equity, although it increases variance. The l/rr is more likely to win us a smaller pot, but leading out wins a massive pot often enough to make it more worthwhile.

I disagree here, because I think a lrr gives us a lot more info. If he raise, and he re-raises, we really have no idea where we stand, because his range is so wide, and we're praying for a coinflip if we push. When we limp, and he raises, again his range is incredibly wide. When we re-raise, if he calls that does narrow down his range quite a bit, as he is now calling a lrr. If he pushes, we can be almost positive that we are beat, as he is coming over the top of our lrr.

I still think we can fold to a push from our lrr, because we would still have a 2nd place stack.

You are happy putting in 200k and folding for 300k into 700k? I would say it's fairly close odds there. I don't like the idea of risking 40% of our stack to increase our stack by 10%.

I think we lose far too much value from his weaker potential reraising hands by l/rr and accepting just 50k from him. If he is willing to reraise with A9, KJ, etc I want to play as large a pot as possible against his range.

It took me quite a while to come to my conclusion so it is probably a close decision in terms of overall equity, but I think there is an edge towards open raising.

If I limp reraise to 250 and he shoves 250 more I pretty much have to call w/ AJ even though I know he has AK or KK no?

Only thing that l/rr to 250 does is that it gives him a chance to smooth call which could suck.

I think a standard raise to 50k is fine here, and I'm not getting away from the hand PF.

No, I definitely am not happy about it, but at some point I think we have to ignore the odds we are getting, and consider our position in the tournament. If everybody had similar stacks, then I would probably be willing to call a push. But here we could fold and still have 2nd by a 100k.

He may be willing to re-raise here with A9/KJ, but when our push is called, we're hoping for a coinflip at best, which is not a situation I am willing to be in at this point in the tourney. We are far too deep, with some pretty small stacks at the table, to be racing for our tourney life.

Given the conditions you've given, I really don't think it makes sense to play for first yet. I think its a fold preflop.

If you've got someone who's going to play back at you with such a wide range, why are you willing to get all your chips in against him with a marginal hand, when there are shorter stacks that you can exploit and that are likely to bust out before the blinds put any pressure on you?

Sure, AJ is a pretty strong hand, but how many hands of his do you have crushed? Your best case scenario there is that he has a weaker A or J, and then you're a solid 3-1 favorite to win. Other than that, do you want to take all your chips against KT or QT? What about against KQ or a pocket pair? I understand the desire to play for first, I just don't think that against someone who plays in such a style, that you did it the right way.

1) Wait to get 3-handed or headsup - you're going to have to beat him in a situation where you are 60-70% against his range. But, given that, why not wait to take that 60-70% shot at a double up until a point where you're not sacrificing a lot of potential prize money.

2) I wouldn't mind you trying to get it all in here if you have a high pp or AK - some hand that really cripples his range. I also wouldn't mind you getting it all in on the flop if you hit top pair here - even though you'd lose with the kicker in this situation.

Note that in actuality, I raise it up, think for a little bit when he reraises, and jam over the top and still go broke. With hindsight, I think that against a maniac cl with such skewed stacks, we fold everything but the very strongest hands.

I keep trying to write an effective response to this, but all I can come up with is "/shrug". You make sense, but something doesn't seem quite right.

/shrug

(I'll come up with something)

AJ 5 handed is a better hand than you guys are giving it credit for. that hand against someone with a wide range bullying everyone is nice. how is it a problem playing against a guy who is playing so wrecklessly?? his reraise to 50 is a gift. he will probably fold to an all in by you if he reraises rather than risk his chip lead(and thus his playing style) unless he has a very premium hand to race.

BUT....

if he is willing to put you all in so casually and he only has 2 to 1 chip lead on you he is crazy, you can choose to wait for a hand you want to go all in with him on, once he re-raises your 50 on it push. <---with your reads this is what i would do, therefore i would limp and call 50 but no more to see the flop.

now decide if you are going to sit on your chips and be meek until its 3 handed and watch this guy build his chips, or if you are gonna take a chance making a stand. you are letting the guy bully the table and you are the only one in a position to stop him.