alright i was playing 50NL 6 Max, and had 2 interesting hands, both times with AA. both times, i limped UTG, and then got someone to reraise preflop. heres the first hand.

Full Tilt Poker Game #1069970404: Table Lindell (6 max) - $0.25/$0.50 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:10:56 ET - 2006/10/05
Seat 1: OG ($65.20)
Seat 2: Putzeudel ($62.95)
Seat 3: Sly_Fox63 ($50)
Seat 4: Roberts2003 ($63.80)
Seat 5: jg128 ($50)
Seat 6: golcapmike ($32.05)
Putzeudel posts the small blind of $0.25
Sly_Fox63 posts the big blind of $0.50
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Roberts2003 [Ah Ac]
Roberts2003 calls $0.50
jg128 folds
golcapmike folds
OG folds
Putzeudel raises to $3
Sly_Fox63 folds
Roberts2003 raises to $8
Putzeudel calls $5
*** FLOP *** [6h Ks As]
Putzeudel checks
Roberts2003 checks
*** TURN *** [6h Ks As] [8d]
Putzeudel checks
Roberts2003 bets $7
Putzeudel calls $7
*** RIVER *** [6h Ks As 8d] [Jc]
Putzeudel checks
Roberts2003 has 15 seconds left to act
Roberts2003 bets $15
Putzeudel: this so smells like AA
Putzeudel has 15 seconds left to act
Putzeudel: u have AA?
Putzeudel calls $15
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Roberts2003 shows [Ah Ac] (three of a kind, Aces)
Roberts2003: yeah
Putzeudel mucks
Roberts2003 wins the pot ($57.50) with three of a kind, Aces
Roberts2003: good read
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $60.50 | Rake $3
Board: [6h Ks As 8d Jc]
Seat 1: OG (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: Putzeudel (small blind) mucked [Kd Kc] - three of a kind, Kings
Seat 3: Sly_Fox63 (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: Roberts2003 showed [Ah Ac] and won ($57.50) with three of a kind, Aces
Seat 5: jg128 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: golcapmike didn't bet (folded)


this hand makes me sick to my stomach.....is the limp reraise really that obvious? he had pocket Kings, and flopped a king, and check called!! i couldnt believe it when i saw his hand...eventually i just came to the conclusion that this player was an exceptional player and that pretty much everyone else would lose there, I no for sure i would.

heres the 2nd hand, and it confirms what i thought earlier about how the quality of your opponents play really is the variable on how well your fancy plays work out.

Full Tilt Poker Game #1070037958: Table Lindell (6 max) - $0.25/$0.50 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:36:00 ET - 2006/10/05
Seat 1: Filly033 ($27.05)
Seat 2: Putzeudel ($64.65)
Seat 3: Sly_Fox63 ($50.75)
Seat 4: Roberts2003 ($100.25)
Seat 5: jg128 ($72.15)
Seat 6: golcapmike ($25.60)
Putzeudel posts the small blind of $0.25
Sly_Fox63 posts the big blind of $0.50
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Roberts2003 [As Ad]
Roberts2003 calls $0.50
jg128 folds
golcapmike calls $0.50
Filly033 folds
Putzeudel calls $0.25
Sly_Fox63 raises to $2.50
Roberts2003 raises to $7
golcapmike folds
Putzeudel folds
Sly_Fox63 calls $4.50
*** FLOP *** [Qs 4c 7s]
Sly_Fox63 bets $10
Roberts2003 raises to $25
Sly_Fox63 calls $15
*** TURN *** [Qs 4c 7s] [6d]
Sly_Fox63 bets $18.75, and is all in
Roberts2003 calls $18.75
Sly_Fox63 shows [Td Ts]
Roberts2003 shows [As Ad]
*** RIVER *** [Qs 4c 7s 6d] [6c]
Sly_Fox63 shows two pair, Tens and Sixes
Roberts2003 shows two pair, Aces and Sixes
Roberts2003 wins the pot ($99.50) with two pair, Aces and Sixes
Sly_Fox63 is sitting out
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $102.50 | Rake $3
Board: [Qs 4c 7s 6d 6c]
Seat 1: Filly033 (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: Putzeudel (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 3: Sly_Fox63 (big blind) showed [Td Ts] and lost with two pair, Tens and Sixes
Seat 4: Roberts2003 showed [As Ad] and won ($99.50) with two pair, Aces and Sixes
Seat 5: jg128 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: golcapmike folded before the Flop
Putzeudel: wtf we even talked about it
Roberts2003: haha
Roberts2003: thats probably why it worked


i dunno, if someone wants to tell me to bet the 1st hand on the flop, then go ahead, i just want to see what people think of this.

I hate the limp-raise
I hate the flop check on this dangerous board.
I hate the turn call on this dangerous board.
I hate the delayed river bet.

Conclusion: I am not a big fan of this hand.

Slowplaying to this extreme makes your monsters very obvious, and it allows you to get ourdrawn, thus costing you huge pots.



--CM

I think you played the first hand like a typicall fish, no offense but this makes me laugh. You have miracaly managed to get KK get away from his set by playing so obvious.

If you would have bet anywhere in the hand he would have called.

Think about it, you raise preflop, he reraise with KK and you push all-in, he calls and you win a buy-in.

Or you raise pre flop, call his reraise, then check raise flop all-in, you win a buy in.

But no you are a great fancy player who 'disguises' his aces and blah blah blah
its just disgusting how you playd that one.

That guy isnt brilliant.

It can be worthwhile to pull that **** when you miss because of how much it looks like aces or kings (and since he had kings, that narrows down the possibilities).

But for you to miss, you'd have to be limpraising with some weird ****.

Honestly, I dont no how good you guys are who replied or what stakes you play, but I have always felt the limp reraise is a good play, and it usually almost always works. You see people on HSP doing it all the time. Also what i forgot to add was that almost every hand was being raised preflop anyway, so i thought someone would raise.

At 50 NL, i feel like most players are not that good to even realize what is going on, this player was an exception. An example is the 2nd hand i posted, that guy had 10 10 and put all his $ in. Whoever said they dont like my call here, maybe you didnt no that this guy was doing this stuff all game, like there was no way im folding there.

Please convert your hands.

http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter

Thank you.

its generally a bad sign if someone with a set of kings correctly assumes you have a set of aces at a 50 NL game

Thats why limp/raising is a bad idea, it tells the table you have a monster. You dont limp, you win his stack expecially on that board

if its such a bad play, then how i managed to win someones entire stack when he had 10 10?

because he was a bad enough player that he would have paid you off with TT no matter how you played the hand.

the 1 hand where you dont stack someone off with top set vs 2nd top set on a board where he had the 3rd nuts and the 2nd nuts before the river which made a gutshot having hit possible should make you quit limp reraising with AA forever in cash games.

alright, im not writting this to make fun of any of you, you all are obviously good players. What I am saying is that the 2nd hand where i got someone all in when they had 10 10 and the board is x x Q x shows that not only most players at 50NL are not that good, but that it is at least a decent play. I posted that first hand knowing that i was going to get flack for not getting full value, the point is that even when i didnt, i feel like 99% of people at 50NL dont have as much insight as this guy did, and would have committed their stack with much worse.

Oh and by the way to whoever said the guy with 10 10 stacks off no matter what, thats simply not true....i would have raised preflop, like 4 people call including him, then he folds on the flop when i make a pot bet. part of the reason he stacked off was because he had seen my do that same play earlier and didnt believe i would do it twice.

you busted a donk

good for you

had you of just open-raised you would done the same

edit; oh yeah, and if its such a good play, how did you have manage to NOT win someones hold stack when you had AA v KK and the flop was AKx? You open-raise you take his whole stack

Look, i am admitting that i feel sick about that result of that hand...im just saying that the limp raise is still a good play, and the only way the open raise works that way is the guy happens to have KK. I love when people say stuff like that....you already know the freaking results!! so many times everyone just folds and you win the blinds. At my table, almost EVERY hand got raised preflop, why not do the limp raise play??

because you posted them!

you dont want what you believe to be results-biased thoughts then dont pot the results. The limp/raise is stupid because it screams a big hand. Even players at 50 NL pick up on it. And because your gonna make a point about the TT dude, SO WHAT. he is a donk, there are donks at every level. Sure, more are at 50 NL but they will still pick up on the limp/raise , because they are donks and they think it is a fantastic play as well.

HAH, i just read your blog....and you strike me as the typical poker player who thinks he is an awesome player because he runs great and pulls off that occasional bluff. Just to tell you, having J10, seeing a flop of AKx, and then hitting that Q on the turn when it also gives someone else a set isnt being a good poker player....thats called running spectacular. all your hands that you post are basicaly coin flips that you win then justify. i can tell you have never hit a cold streak before, and if you did, you are the kind of player who would massively tilt.


Oh yeah, and ummmm, i also found this in your blog

"Picked up KK and limped(that only time Ill lip with big pairs is if some idiot is making huge raises every hand)"

yea...maybe thats exactly what i did??

Full Tilt Poker Game #1072688752: Table Rainbow (6 max) - $0.25/$0.50 - No Limit Hold'em - 12:33:40 ET - 2006/10/06
Seat 2: benos ($158.10)
Seat 3: Rhamulus5 ($27.25)
Seat 4: heaveho ($48.50)
Seat 5: lill_Kitty ($44.40)
Seat 6: Roberts2003 ($53.65)
heaveho posts the small blind of $0.25
lill_Kitty posts the big blind of $0.50
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Roberts2003 [As Ah]
Roberts2003 raises to $1.50
Super Dave6 sits down
benos folds
Rhamulus5 folds
Super Dave6 adds $18.55
heaveho has 15 seconds left to act
heaveho folds
lill_Kitty folds
Uncalled bet of $1 returned to Roberts2003
Roberts2003 shows [As Ah] (a pair of Aces)
Roberts2003 wins the pot ($1.25)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $1.25 | Rake $0
Seat 2: benos didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: Rhamulus5 (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: heaveho (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 5: lill_Kitty (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 6: Roberts2003 collected ($1.25)


Hey...what a sweet play. So instead of trying to win a big pot by limp raising, i can win 75 cents and the blinds!!!! sounds like a great choice!!!!

Don't show your cards


--cm

Hey...what a sweet play. So instead of trying to win a big pot by limp raising, i can win 75 cents and the blinds!!!! sounds like a great choice!!!!

win a big pot?

the only way youre winning a big pot by limp/raising is if someone actually has a hand! If they had that strong of a hand, they would of called. And lets just say you limp and they do raise, and you re-raise. WOW!!!!!OMG!!!! Youve won over 2 dollars!!!!!!!

This is a common thing with fish is that they raise on one hand, ONE hand...i repeat, ONE HAND!!!!!! And get no action and think its a horrible play

And if you dont wanna win $.75, why didnt you wanna win $30??? Had you have raised the first hand and not lmip/raised, you are gonna get it allin especially on that flop and take $63 from the guy, not $30

eddie why dont you go brag about winning coin flips in your blog

if that is all you can come up win I think its obvious youve been pwned

have a nice day

This thread is retarded.

So much results based thinking. So much closed-minded replies from the OP.

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with
Hero calls, 3 folds, SB raises to $3, BB folds, Hero raises to $8.5, SB calls.

Flop: ($17.5, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($17.5, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $7, SB calls.

River: ($31.5, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $15, SB calls.

Results:
Final pot: $61.5


Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with
Hero calls, UTG+1 folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls, BB raises to $2.5, Hero raises to $7.5, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: ($16, 2 players)
BB bets $10, Hero raises to $25, BB calls.

Turn: ($66, 2 players)
BB is all-in $18.75, Hero calls.

River: ($103.5, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $103.5)


Results:
Final pot: $103.5

http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...t&p=1419434


so you convert for others but not "newbs." you sir are a real jerk when it comes down to it

Use FTR format.



You sir, are an idiot. I do more for this strategy forum than a 99% of the members of this forum. I'm simply pointing out a forum RULE. Anyways, you are a complete tool.

lol i guess you didnt see the sw in the post

also you didnt add anything here that i can see that was helpful, so your claim of doing things for strategy is rather eronious

An SW in your signature is not the equivalent of an SW in your post.

I don't give strategy replies to posts that do not follow the strat forum rules.

Since you converted them:

Hand 1 - Raise preflop, instead of giving away your exact hand. Get it all in preflop. As played, bet the flop. Slowplaying is for donkeys since a good player would be c-betting with anything there, you should with the nuts too.

Hand 2 - Raise preflop, instead of giving away your exact hand. As played, it's fine.

But Actuary's post about online poker ban issue was fine because he is um your butt sex buddy?

Seriously think about it. I assumed w/o an sw that he was serious and then you say he was just kidding.

well i was just kidding too...


see why you are a dumb fuc.k?

again have butt sex with actuary

You are hopeless.

There is no hope for this guy...(referring to Basecone)

He'll learn about limp raising with huge hands when NO ONE raises him. Six people call and the flop comes down 228 and you lose to the SB who has 23o! Okay, it happened to me. I was playing live in the casino; it was the third hand I was dealt; I was UTG. I knew I was beat; I just had to fully punish myself for limping with bullets.....never again.

I don't hate mixing in limp-reraises as much as everyone else, but I generally do it if I have an aggressive player on my left that raises a lot and I know other players will call his raise because he raises a lot. I'm generally looking to take down a bunch of BB without seeing a flop. I'm willing to reveal the strength of my hand there to take an uncontested pot.

In any case, checking this flop is so freaking horrible that it hurts the soul of my pug. I'm not bashing the OP, just the play. You bet out here and you stack the guy. What are you trying to represent with the way you played the hand? AK, maybe? The only possible hand you could have is AA.

Edit: I knew I had a thread from a while ago about this.

http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...ic=6827&hl=

It's bascomeb. It's not too difficult. I fear there is no hope for JMonee2210.

Yea, checking the flop in the first hand is bad. You need to bet...if I was in the hand and that went down I'd be quite weary to. I'd put you on one of two hands. AA or QQ. AA slowplaying, QQ slowing down cause of the board.

Whenever someone makes a re-raise PF and then slows down when a A/K falls I usually think he is "trapping".

The other funny move is when you get delayed raise. Usually a delay raise or bet is extreme strength...I only think it's a bluff if you are playing opponents who know this and know you "know" it as well and are bluffing you by using the delay raise. I use this tell more live, but I've seen it online enough to think it's a valid tell.

I personally havn't played full ring games for a long time, but I prefer open raising UTG, unless i'm in an extremelyyyyyyyyyyyyy aggressive game and im 90% sure it's getting raised behind me. Otherwise I open raise like I do a variety of hands cause it throws off your opponents.

And yes...too many people are just putting in their thoughts off the results of the hand. The fact that KK slowed down shows that he was a good player, but I know for a fact that he will never fold KK here if you bet the flop/turn and river respectively.

I also would argue he might be a nit in not repopping it PF. I don't care, in a $50 nl game I'm getting all in PF everytime with KK. I still don't relaly fold KK in $400nl cash games (which sux when it happens in multiple sessions) ....point is...this guy may have been "afraid" of you having AA but I still get it all in there pf if I'm him.

I'd still open raise more though.

edit -- i just dbl checked and it's FTP..well that makes sense...site is full of nits.

- Jordan

If your gonna move this from the short handed forum to the NL forum whats the point of the short handed forum?

SH forum is for SH LHE.

I think we should have a SH NL forum too though.

They won't give me admin powers...

This is the heading under the Short Handed Hold'em Forum

"Discuss both short handed limit and no limit hold'em here"

booooo mods

Ya, we know.

In the guidelines inside, it says just LHE.

It's just something that developped over time into just SH LHE.

I love that part. If it wasnt for the ban, we would have a bunch of new players playing all type of hands like J7o, because Daniel 3-bet it preflop.

In short, no need to be tricky at the low limits, they don't see those aces coming most of the time. You get an A+ in representing aces in the first hand though.

QFT





please stay out of strategy douchebag

That is why you raise preflop.. it makes it so no one thinks something fishy (pun intended) is up... guy with kings reraises.. you push.. he calls end of story...

He's banned, because of this thread, among others.

Seems like a heated discussion from most peoples post so I won't get into to much here but I will add something about the first hand that can help disguise your hand.

When you limp and he raises, if you are sure you will get heads up then you can just call safely and that will help hide your hand and you could get a nice payoff this way to.

good hes such a f ing ******

hahahaha. i just found this thread. its truly amazing to look back on some of the hands that you play. this guy really did absolutely soul read me when i had AAA and he had KKK. its to this day still the most embarrassing hand I have ever played. And yes, I just made the most unnecessary bump ever. BUMP!!

25c/50c to $25/$50 in 14 months is pretty good I must say.

Also, YOU HAVE A DIFFERENT ACCOUNT NAME NOW!! I'M TELLING FT ABOUT YOU HAHAHA!!!!! YOU GONNA GET BANNINATED!!

j/k obv.

The guy still made a pretty sick read. I'd be going flat broke in that situation every single time.




Yeah, I don't really know why you guys were arguing via results based thinking. Waste time much?

I didn't bother reading all the posts, but since the tourny strat forum is dead, I would like to add in 1 thing.

Limp reraise at low stakes tournaments=KK, AA, or maybe AK or QQ.

I would assume the same holds true for cash games.

Also, fancy plays are relatively pointless at lowlimits. You can play standard TAG and have a higher winrate.

imho.

The last time I limped with aces a guy shot me. At the time I thought it was the money, but maybe he was just trying to enforce his ideas on good strategy.

That's quite plainly the most persuasive argument for not limping ever.

ur a degen

Please don't open limped AA utg in a short-handed game.