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Full Version: Flopping 2 Pair In Position.. Do I Cont-bet?
FCP Poker Forum > Poker Strategy Forum > Tournament Play
Wandigo
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG (t20081)
UTG+1 (t7565)
MP1 (t8295)
MP2 (t12205)
MP3 (t10200)
Hero (t9425)
Button (t2720)
SB (t15465)
BB (t3450)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q, A.
3 folds, MP2 calls t150, 1 fold, Hero raises to t450, 3 folds, MP2 calls t300.

Flop: (t1125) Q, A, 6 (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero ???????.


Do I throw out a continuation bet and hope he makes a stab or check and show weakness and hope he throws a bet out on the turn, which I can flat-call (or raise?)

No reads on the guy, he was new to our table, and this is shortly after the break in a rebuy.

Thanks, I love you guys!
Ricer98
I think a continuation bet is in order, somewhere around the 500-600 range. I think you'll get called by enough hands you dominate like an AK or AJ that is not worth hoping he bluffs the turn with a hand like KQ. Assuming you do wait and he does bet a KQ, unless hes really bad I don't think your getting called if you raise, or that he'll bet on the river assuming you just flat call.
Frenchtime
QUOTE (Wandigo @ Wednesday, October 4th, 2006, 10:26 PM) *
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG (t20081)
UTG+1 (t7565)
MP1 (t8295)
MP2 (t12205)
MP3 (t10200)
Hero (t9425)
Button (t2720)
SB (t15465)
BB (t3450)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q, A.
3 folds, MP2 calls t150, 1 fold, Hero raises to t450, 3 folds, MP2 calls t300.

Flop: (t1125) Q, A, 6 (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero ???????.
Do I throw out a continuation bet and hope he makes a stab or check and show weakness and hope he throws a bet out on the turn, which I can flat-call (or raise?)

No reads on the guy, he was new to our table, and this is shortly after the break in a rebuy.

Thanks, I love you guys!


Both plays look like viable options. You have a strong enough hand to afford checking to possibly induce a bluff or a bet with a weaker hand on the turn. But since you have no reads on your opponent id prefer keeping it simple id lean more towards a continuation bet because you can be paid off with the villain holding alot of weaker holdings then yous, which happens very frequently in rebuys.
Zach6668
If you c-bet when you miss the flop heads up, then you HAVE to bet here. AINEC.
tskillz187
QUOTE (Zach6668 @ Thursday, October 5th, 2006, 3:23 AM) *
If you c-bet when you miss the flop heads up, then you HAVE to bet here. AINEC.


If I could bold that darker I would. It's so true. Cont betting when weak and checking strong? Color me obvious. Keep it consistent, you are Cont betting every flop 80-85% of time, so just follow that.
copernicus
QUOTE (Zach6668 @ Thursday, October 5th, 2006, 6:23 AM) *
If you c-bet when you miss the flop heads up, then you HAVE to bet here. AINEC.


Thats one good reason, another is what hands can he improve enough to call later that he wont call know?

Pairs...that turn into sets, so you dont want him to call later. there are about 42 of these, with about 4% chance of hitting, and you can lose a ton against these well hidden hands.

Ax (other than K) ....that turn into lower two pair, so you want him to call later. there are about 36 of these (down to 6), with about 6% chance of hitting, and you probably dont win as much as you lose to the sets. He has to be cautious in the face of your continuing to bet and only having


KJ, KT...that turn into straights, so you dont want him to call later. There are 32 of these, with about 8% of hitting, how much you lose depends on your ability to fold top 2 pair.

So about 10% of the hands he could have turn into better hands, and more of those are bad for you than good....and potentially a lot worse.


What about deception value?

In general slow playing hidden strength pays off far more than slow playing to a scary board. The exception would be if he's nearly guaranteed to lead the turn trying to steal the pot and will call a raise.

Bet/check/bet from you looks weaker than check/bet/bet when the board is scary, because he recognizes the possibility of the slow play on the flop in the latter situation.
throwemaway
QUOTE (copernicus @ Thursday, October 5th, 2006, 8:20 AM) *
Thats one good reason, another is what hands can he improve enough to call later that he wont call know?

Pairs...that turn into sets, so you dont want him to call later. there are about 42 of these, with about 4% chance of hitting, and you can lose a ton against these well hidden hands.

Ax (other than K) ....that turn into lower two pair, so you want him to call later. there are about 36 of these (down to 6), with about 6% chance of hitting, and you probably dont win as much as you lose to the sets. He has to be cautious in the face of your continuing to bet and only having
KJ, KT...that turn into straights, so you dont want him to call later. There are 32 of these, with about 8% of hitting, how much you lose depends on your ability to fold top 2 pair.

So about 10% of the hands he could have turn into better hands, and more of those are bad for you than good....and potentially a lot worse.
What about deception value?

In general slow playing hidden strength pays off far more than slow playing to a scary board. The exception would be if he's nearly guaranteed to lead the turn trying to steal the pot and will call a raise.

Bet/check/bet from you looks weaker than check/bet/bet when the board is scary, because he recognizes the possibility of the slow play on the flop in the latter situation.



This is the line I like a lot in this situation..It induces a lot of river bluffs/bets
pokerfan1080
As cop pointed out, there are alot of hands that can improve here. We have a good hand and a bet may not pull as much value as a slow play if our opponent folds to our bet. But we also need to bet to protect our hand sometimes as well.

If the flop did set villain up for a draw, we need to make him pay if he is on a draw.
Actuary
if you don't bet, he can't c/r you with AJ.

If he calls the flop bet, I'm not checking the turn against most players.
I'd rather continue to build a pot.
I think the board is very dry, so most hands calling the flop will be an Ace, and he will be drawing very light; but want to see showdown.
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