Full Ring, 8th hand in no reads.

*** Blind Bet Round *** :
Dealt to bourne0: Ad
Dealt to bourne0: Ac
hawkeen : Post Blind ($1)
PrincessAmy0 : Post Blind ($2)
*** Pre-Flop *** :
Chaumonster1 : Bet ($7)
bourne0 : Raise ($21)
Chaumonster1 : Call ($14)
*** Flop *** : 9c 8s 8d
Chaumonster1 : Bet ($20)
bourne0 : Raise ($70)
Chaumonster1 : Raise ($161)
Chaumonster1 : All In ($181)
bourne0 : Call ($103.50)
bourne0 : All In ($173.50)

This is 99/88 most of the time I would say. I don't see TT/JJ/QQ/KK being this dumb normally.

with the big 3 bet preflop i think this is good. This is against kings a lot of the time

If he smooth calls preflop with KK 1/2 the time, we are 43% against KK/88/99. Most of the time KK will repop us preflop. This fits 99/88 perfectly. Anything else would have to be oddly played.

I honestly don't see this being 99 88. Why would he pop it on the flop? A huge majority of the time, when you flop big full or quads, he's looking to check. With quads he's checking 100 percent of the time. He has too. He's hogging the whole board.

I honestly put him on KK, with the least being Jacks. The only way it could be 99 88 and he played it like this would be a dead on read that the opponent has an overpair. If he has that read, why would he call preflop though? Hope his 8 to 1 shot comes through?

My read is he has KK, QQ, or JJ.

We have reraised big preflop. We are likely to have AA, KK, QQ. If he leads out, we will raise with an overpair. If he check-raises, we may be able to fold. It's a fairly standard play to lead out here.
Yes, he's "hogging the board", but that doesn't matter at all if we have the hand we represented preflop.

Is that difficult?

Ever heard of implied odds? This is practically the definition of the term.

You must play some really bad players if you think he moves in with JJ or QQ here.

How tight of poker do you play? I think this can easily be qq, jj, 1010, kk, i don't see this being 99 and 88 much at all.

After we have reraised big preflop, what hands does villain put us on?
Probably something like TT+, AQ+. TT and JJ are questionable, and so is AQ.

When we reraise to $70 on the flop we almost certainly don't have AK or AQ. Our play looks like QQ+.

Unless villain is a total idiot he does not have TT or JJ when he reraises another $100 on top allin.

If he is willing to get allin on a flop of 889r with QQ/KK why would he not be willing to put it in preflop? It doesn't make much sense.

Everybody please listen to simo.

Also, OP, convert your goddamn hands.

It's about time someone else showed up. I thought I was fighting this on my own here.

This makes little sense. If he knows We have AA KK or QQ, why does he call preflop when we raise big? Hoping to flop his set?


Yes, but if this player is as good as you'll lead on, he wouldn't call the big raise with a small pair knowing his opponent has an overpair. This just isn't good poker. He's getting laid 2 to 1 on an 8 to 1 shot. Not good odds. Good players lay down the worst hand. Good players don't call with the worst with bad odds hoping to flop a monster. It just isn't good poker.



And you must play with absolute rocks to think that he either has quads or a full house.

Really, what does KK fear from this flop? Three plausible hands (AA, 99, 88). He can narrow it down further, if he thinks his opponent wouldn't re-raise with a small pair. AK, QQ, JJ I've all seen re-raise about that much before. It's highly plausible, especially with only one player in the pot. He would think his hand is good, and would want to push allin while his hand is the best ATM.

In this situation, if he has KK, post flop, he bets out to try to get maximum value, but to try to possibly drive out AK. He might even have AK himself, as the one third pot bet resembles a stab. However, as we see from the ensueing action, we can rule out AK, and rule in Kings through Jacks. Queens only fear two hands, Jacks fear three. I really think he could only have Kings or Queens though.

I really think your giving this player far too much credit. If your playing this tight, you need to loosen up.
If you fold AA to a 9 8 8 unsuited flop, when will you play it? When you flop quads? Please.

Good god guys, he leads into the raiser (aka strength), ok, we have a strong hand, we raise him, then he fucking pushes overtop of that. (read: I can beat AA!).

Easy folds.


EDIT - If you guys think this guy is the type of player who goes broke with KK here, then he's the type of player who will push it preflop into aggression.

Yes.

Yes he would.

Yes it is.


Yes it is. You evidently don't understand implied odds in the slightest.

I know what implied odds are in this situation. It means that if he flops his set with what he knows his opponent has, he will get paid off big.

Again, if he is as good as you implement, I seriously don't think he'd donk off 10 percent of his stack on a 8 to 1 longshot. Perhaps you would.

KK, QQ fits into this situation perfectly also. True, 99 or 88 is partially plausible, but I beleive KK or QQ is more likely because of the bet on the flop.

Your playing far too tight.

Whoever doesn't call this big raises with pocket pairs are leaving tons of money on the table. Half the time I stack someone it is because I know they have AA or KK call the 4 ptbb with a pocket pair, flop a set and whola a lot of money.


Edit, you have to make sure they have enough money, you need probably 15-20 times the raise amount for this to work.

In this case he has to call $14 more and we have about $195 total (if I'm reading it right). He has the odds.

Oddly enough I was just reading the exact example in Sklansky's NL book today. If we're going to call the all-in on this flop we need to bet more PF. Hard to say without the stack sizes but assuming 200 each we'd need to bet pretty big to deny him 8-1. Without doing the math - it's late - I think in the 50 range. Otherwise we need to fold to this flop action. Unless villain is a complete idiot he can beat AA here.

*** Turn *** : [ 9c 8s 8d ] 8c
*** River *** : [ 9c 8s 8d 8c ] 5h


continue....

Continue what?

The money was all in on the flop.

Clearly the money was all in on the flop, i posted the turn and river cards because it discounted 88 from the equation and wanted to see if it sparked any more conversation.


Villian had 99 and I horribly misplayed the hand, I called knowing I was beat which I don't do very often. It's been a bad week.

My thoughts after the fact....
After the call preflop we have to put a thinking villian on any PP (he has the odds) along with AK, AQs. I should have assumed villian is not making a move here since I am new to the table, have never played with him before, and we both have 100bb's. The $20 flop lead could be considered weak or strong but after I reraise I am (as zach said already in this thread) representing either AA/KK 90% of the time in villians perspective. He has no reads, so a push here should represent a set or better a vast majority of the time. I think KK/QQ is likely flat calling my reraise while JJ/1010 is folding here.

If I had reraised to $35 pf like I normally do I avoid this mess

How does it spark any more discussion?

We didn't know the turn card when we got all the money in. Doesn't matter if it's a 2 or an 8.

A raise to $35 preflop would be excessive. I like the size of your raise, assuming you feel comfortable folding aces to a lot of action postflop.