all of these are 200NL, 6 max
UTG-200
Me(BB)-105
UTG raises to 10, 3 folds, Hero pushes allin for $105
......................................................
BB-200
Me(CO)-250
2 folds, Hero raises to 6, 2 folds, BB calls.
Flop; 7d 8s 9c
BB bets 10, Hero calls
turn; 2s
BB checks, Hero bets 25, BB folds
..........................................
Me(Button)-250
BB-265
2 folds, CO calls, Hero raises to 6, 1 folds, BB raises to 22, CO folds, Hero pushes allin for $250
member, I have KK in all of them
Full Version: How Do I Play Kings?
First hand- Don't like pushing here. he's probably not calling with anything except JJ-AA and AK. Just reraise to 30-40 and if board has no ace try getting it all in with what you have left.
Second hand- Youre in position but your giving to much of a price to BB to call pre-flop. Raise it to 4BB or at least 3.5BB. KK is a made hand but nonetheless vulnerable so unless youre capable of letting it go easily if you feel your beat, you're not raising enough given the amount of value you put on the hand and the fact you're probably gonna be betting it hard and getting money involved. I will frequently raise up to 3BB with PP up to JJ and hands like AK or AQ because I can easily let them go if I don't hit. KK is harder to let go.
As for flop, defintley reraise to like 35 to see where you're at. If called then proceed very cautiously, if he pushes I think you have to let go. This flop is horrible for KK. Much too coordinated and we have no hint of any backdoor draw even.
Third hand- Multiple ways I play this. In some situations I would take your line but I'm not a big fan of it here. You have the button and he is BB. MY line here would be to cold call or throw in another reraise. I am probably cold calling though because BB is interpreting it as positional raise and a blind steal in most situations and he is probably sitting on somethin like A10-AK or 1010-QQ, if even that strong. If you cold call you disguise your hand and he will probably have to lead flop since he closed out betting pre-flop. Even a half pot C-Bet will be significant and any board without an ace is looking good, once again. If you cold call you run the risk of letting him outdraw you though. Recognize when it happens and be prepared to fold.
Second hand- Youre in position but your giving to much of a price to BB to call pre-flop. Raise it to 4BB or at least 3.5BB. KK is a made hand but nonetheless vulnerable so unless youre capable of letting it go easily if you feel your beat, you're not raising enough given the amount of value you put on the hand and the fact you're probably gonna be betting it hard and getting money involved. I will frequently raise up to 3BB with PP up to JJ and hands like AK or AQ because I can easily let them go if I don't hit. KK is harder to let go.
As for flop, defintley reraise to like 35 to see where you're at. If called then proceed very cautiously, if he pushes I think you have to let go. This flop is horrible for KK. Much too coordinated and we have no hint of any backdoor draw even.
Third hand- Multiple ways I play this. In some situations I would take your line but I'm not a big fan of it here. You have the button and he is BB. MY line here would be to cold call or throw in another reraise. I am probably cold calling though because BB is interpreting it as positional raise and a blind steal in most situations and he is probably sitting on somethin like A10-AK or 1010-QQ, if even that strong. If you cold call you disguise your hand and he will probably have to lead flop since he closed out betting pre-flop. Even a half pot C-Bet will be significant and any board without an ace is looking good, once again. If you cold call you run the risk of letting him outdraw you though. Recognize when it happens and be prepared to fold.
QUOTE (Lavitz @ Wednesday, August 30th, 2006, 9:27 PM) 
Second hand- Youre in position but your giving to much of a price to BB to call pre-flop. Raise it to 4BB or at least 3.5BB. KK is a made hand but nonetheless vulnerable so unless youre capable of letting it go easily if you feel your beat, you're not raising enough given the amount of value you put on the hand and the fact you're probably gonna be betting it hard and getting money involved. I will frequently raise up to 3BB with PP up to JJ and hands like AK or AQ because I can easily let them go if I don't hit. KK is harder to let go.
I really disagree with that, raising more with hands like KK or QQ will just make it obvious you hva e big hnad and I wont get any action ever.
As for the first hand, my opponent called with 88, very quickly. Now, that had a lot to do with my play on hand 3 since it was the same guy, i knew he wouldnt fold 99+ AK and maybe even AQs
Raising KK 2 x BB is a recipe for disaster in my book.
Unless you can fold overpairs like its your job this has to go down as a mistake. Its an absolute nothing raise. I agree with what your saying in terms of raising the same amount all the time but it has to be higher.
I play a bunch of 1/2 and 2/4 NL and, for my money, if your raising this small the range any given opponent could be holding is too broad for you to be able to play well post flop.
I think the first hand is pretty poor as well. You talk about value, for me, there are very few hands that can call this raise and dare I say it, half of them have you beat. Someone might talk themselves into calling with JJ or AK but I think you played it lazy, however, I know a lot of people (Smash's followers) would disagree.
Third hand, better but the first two I think there is a lot of room for improvement.
Unless you can fold overpairs like its your job this has to go down as a mistake. Its an absolute nothing raise. I agree with what your saying in terms of raising the same amount all the time but it has to be higher.
I play a bunch of 1/2 and 2/4 NL and, for my money, if your raising this small the range any given opponent could be holding is too broad for you to be able to play well post flop.
I think the first hand is pretty poor as well. You talk about value, for me, there are very few hands that can call this raise and dare I say it, half of them have you beat. Someone might talk themselves into calling with JJ or AK but I think you played it lazy, however, I know a lot of people (Smash's followers) would disagree.
Third hand, better but the first two I think there is a lot of room for improvement.
QUOTE (PimpRock @ Thursday, August 31st, 2006, 2:27 PM)
Raising KK 2 x BB is a recipe for disaster in my book.
Unless you can fold overpairs like its your job this has to go down as a mistake. Its an absolute nothing raise. I agree with what your saying in terms of raising the same amount all the time but it has to be higher.
I play a bunch of 1/2 and 2/4 NL and, for my money, if your raising this small the range any given opponent could be holding is too broad for you to be able to play well post flop.
I think the first hand is pretty poor as well. You talk about value, for me, there are very few hands that can call this raise and dare I say it, half of them have you beat. Someone might talk themselves into calling with JJ or AK but I think you played it lazy, however, I know a lot of people (Smash's followers) would disagree.
Third hand, better but the first two I think there is a lot of room for improvement.
Unless you can fold overpairs like its your job this has to go down as a mistake. Its an absolute nothing raise. I agree with what your saying in terms of raising the same amount all the time but it has to be higher.
I play a bunch of 1/2 and 2/4 NL and, for my money, if your raising this small the range any given opponent could be holding is too broad for you to be able to play well post flop.
I think the first hand is pretty poor as well. You talk about value, for me, there are very few hands that can call this raise and dare I say it, half of them have you beat. Someone might talk themselves into calling with JJ or AK but I think you played it lazy, however, I know a lot of people (Smash's followers) would disagree.
Third hand, better but the first two I think there is a lot of room for improvement.
when did I raise 2xBB, 200NL is generally 1/2 blinds meaning 6 is 3xBB(6 divided by 2 is 3...drrr)
Once again, this is 200NL, if I was playing with pros, yes their calling range would be something like JJ+ AK. But im not, many of the 200 NL donks will calling with about 77+ and maybe as low as AJs depending on how donkish they are.
If I was in position, I probably would raise to 30-ish, but im not, I didnt wanna have to fold if the flop came Axx or even something like 3 connecting suited cards like T87s or whatever.
And again, you think half the hands calling me beat me? check your math again, only 1 hand beats me, yet you think he's calling with 5 hands JJ+ and AK
dude, it interesting you have asked for an evaluation of your play but your not having any of it.
1) Your raise. 6 bucks is not enough. By putting it up to 6 your CALLING 2 and raising 4 (2+4 = 6) that is where I got te 2 x bb figure but whatever. The point stands, its not enough.
Once again, this is 200NL, if I was playing with pros, yes their calling range would be something like JJ+ AK. But im not, many of the 200 NL donks will calling with about 77+ and maybe as low as AJs depending on how donkish they are.
2) You think a 6 dollar raise is gonna thin the field significantly your SO wrong. By raising to 6, the range now is literally ANY pair, ANY suited connector (save maybe 2/3 and 3/4) and any suited ace, suited king and probably any 2 court cards. Now I know what your thinking, you want action off most of these hands but the range you are putting yourself up against is waaaaaaay too broad. Your making post flop play damn near impossible and unless your up against an uberdonk, your not gonna be winning many big pots but you will be losing big pots because your giving people incredibly good implied odds.
3) If I was in position, I probably would raise to 30-ish, but im not, I didnt wanna have to fold if the flop came Axx or even something like 3 connecting suited cards like T87s or whatever.
I would argue you need to me raising MORE out of position. Its ok to fold difficult boards after big raises BUT by raising more than 6 bucks, your giving yourself a much better idea of what they have and making a far more informed decision. By raising big OOP, your buying position. By making a more modest raise in the cut off / otb, your controlling the action, the size of the pot and will have way more information on later streets.
And again, you think half the hands calling me beat me? check your math again, only 1 hand beats me, yet you think he's calling with 5 hands JJ+ and AK
If you re-read what I said, I think the majority of the time AA / QQ is the only hand likely to pay you off and your behind half the time. Some players, not many, will pay over half a buy in with AK and JJ but I think this is a lot rarer.
You seem indignant that I dont like your play but the bottom line is that you asked and I think there are better ways to play KK rather than just push after a singe raise.
Please excuse my non-use of the quote facility.
1) Your raise. 6 bucks is not enough. By putting it up to 6 your CALLING 2 and raising 4 (2+4 = 6) that is where I got te 2 x bb figure but whatever. The point stands, its not enough.
Once again, this is 200NL, if I was playing with pros, yes their calling range would be something like JJ+ AK. But im not, many of the 200 NL donks will calling with about 77+ and maybe as low as AJs depending on how donkish they are.
2) You think a 6 dollar raise is gonna thin the field significantly your SO wrong. By raising to 6, the range now is literally ANY pair, ANY suited connector (save maybe 2/3 and 3/4) and any suited ace, suited king and probably any 2 court cards. Now I know what your thinking, you want action off most of these hands but the range you are putting yourself up against is waaaaaaay too broad. Your making post flop play damn near impossible and unless your up against an uberdonk, your not gonna be winning many big pots but you will be losing big pots because your giving people incredibly good implied odds.
3) If I was in position, I probably would raise to 30-ish, but im not, I didnt wanna have to fold if the flop came Axx or even something like 3 connecting suited cards like T87s or whatever.
I would argue you need to me raising MORE out of position. Its ok to fold difficult boards after big raises BUT by raising more than 6 bucks, your giving yourself a much better idea of what they have and making a far more informed decision. By raising big OOP, your buying position. By making a more modest raise in the cut off / otb, your controlling the action, the size of the pot and will have way more information on later streets.
And again, you think half the hands calling me beat me? check your math again, only 1 hand beats me, yet you think he's calling with 5 hands JJ+ and AK
If you re-read what I said, I think the majority of the time AA / QQ is the only hand likely to pay you off and your behind half the time. Some players, not many, will pay over half a buy in with AK and JJ but I think this is a lot rarer.
You seem indignant that I dont like your play but the bottom line is that you asked and I think there are better ways to play KK rather than just push after a singe raise.
Please excuse my non-use of the quote facility.
dude, it interesting you have asked for an evaluation of your play but your not having any of it.
I get annoyed when people without a brain try to evaluate me
1) Your raise. 6 bucks is not enough. By putting it up to 6 your CALLING 2 and raising 4 (2+4 = 6) that is where I got te 2 x bb figure but whatever. The point stands, its not enough.
See what I mean about you being stupid. If the blind is 2 and you raise it to 6, normal people call that 3xBB. and 3xBB is PLENTY. Like I said, if I always raise more when I have a big hand, its not gonna be profitable for me
2) You think a 6 dollar raise is gonna thin the field significantly your SO wrong. By raising to 6, the range now is literally ANY pair, ANY suited connector (save maybe 2/3 and 3/4) and any suited ace, suited king and probably any 2 court cards. Now I know what your thinking, you want action off most of these hands but the range you are putting yourself up against is waaaaaaay too broad. Your making post flop play damn near impossible and unless your up against an uberdonk, your not gonna be winning many big pots but you will be losing big pots because your giving people incredibly good implied odds.
once again, with you being stupid. You are the one who said that on my first allin im only getting called by JJ+ and AK. I said at this limit people will call my ALLIN, NOT MY INTIAL RAISE(kinda like I already said...but youre dumb and cant read) with sometimes as weak as 77+ and AJs+. And once again youre proved an idiot when you say Im only getting called by JJ and AK+, well as I already said he called rather quickly with 88. Shows what you know
I would argue you need to me raising MORE out of position. Its ok to fold difficult boards after big raises BUT by raising more than 6 bucks, your giving yourself a much better idea of what they have and making a far more informed decision. By raising big OOP, your buying position. By making a more modest raise in the cut off / otb, your controlling the action, the size of the pot and will have way more information on later streets.
I disagree. I dont mind opening a pot OOP. But if Im gonna re-raise someone, I really dont wanna play a big pot OOP. And my stack has a lot to do with the push in hand 1. a re-raise represents 1/3 my stack.
If you re-read what I said, I think the majority of the time AA / QQ is the only hand likely to pay you off and your behind half the time. Some players, not many, will pay over half a buy in with AK and JJ but I think this is a lot rarer.
Once again, youre an idiot. Hand 1 the guy called with 88 with was WAY outta your given range. and hand 3, I only pushed because I was up against the same guy who called with 88 knowing that he would probably call with something as low as 99 and AQs+
Please excuse my non-use of the quote facility.
you shoulda exvuse your self for lack of a brain, not lack of quote
[/quote]
I get annoyed when people without a brain try to evaluate me
1) Your raise. 6 bucks is not enough. By putting it up to 6 your CALLING 2 and raising 4 (2+4 = 6) that is where I got te 2 x bb figure but whatever. The point stands, its not enough.
See what I mean about you being stupid. If the blind is 2 and you raise it to 6, normal people call that 3xBB. and 3xBB is PLENTY. Like I said, if I always raise more when I have a big hand, its not gonna be profitable for me
2) You think a 6 dollar raise is gonna thin the field significantly your SO wrong. By raising to 6, the range now is literally ANY pair, ANY suited connector (save maybe 2/3 and 3/4) and any suited ace, suited king and probably any 2 court cards. Now I know what your thinking, you want action off most of these hands but the range you are putting yourself up against is waaaaaaay too broad. Your making post flop play damn near impossible and unless your up against an uberdonk, your not gonna be winning many big pots but you will be losing big pots because your giving people incredibly good implied odds.
once again, with you being stupid. You are the one who said that on my first allin im only getting called by JJ+ and AK. I said at this limit people will call my ALLIN, NOT MY INTIAL RAISE(kinda like I already said...but youre dumb and cant read) with sometimes as weak as 77+ and AJs+. And once again youre proved an idiot when you say Im only getting called by JJ and AK+, well as I already said he called rather quickly with 88. Shows what you know
I would argue you need to me raising MORE out of position. Its ok to fold difficult boards after big raises BUT by raising more than 6 bucks, your giving yourself a much better idea of what they have and making a far more informed decision. By raising big OOP, your buying position. By making a more modest raise in the cut off / otb, your controlling the action, the size of the pot and will have way more information on later streets.
I disagree. I dont mind opening a pot OOP. But if Im gonna re-raise someone, I really dont wanna play a big pot OOP. And my stack has a lot to do with the push in hand 1. a re-raise represents 1/3 my stack.
If you re-read what I said, I think the majority of the time AA / QQ is the only hand likely to pay you off and your behind half the time. Some players, not many, will pay over half a buy in with AK and JJ but I think this is a lot rarer.
Once again, youre an idiot. Hand 1 the guy called with 88 with was WAY outta your given range. and hand 3, I only pushed because I was up against the same guy who called with 88 knowing that he would probably call with something as low as 99 and AQs+
Please excuse my non-use of the quote facility.
you shoulda exvuse your self for lack of a brain, not lack of quote
[/quote]
Umm ok eddie, I read your first reply to point #1, concerning preflop raising. The reason you should raise more, is because you make more money. If you know you're going to be called for 4x, just as you were for 3x, why not extract value?
1) Pushing is fine. Re-raising and pushing on a non-A flop good too.
2) Raise or fold on the flop. You need to know where you stand, particularly when you raised only 3xbb preflop.
3) I think you smooth-call the re-raise and play hard postflop. Again, pushing for $250 gives a very small range for the villain to call you with.
2) Raise or fold on the flop. You need to know where you stand, particularly when you raised only 3xbb preflop.
3) I think you smooth-call the re-raise and play hard postflop. Again, pushing for $250 gives a very small range for the villain to call you with.
QUOTE (fckthis @ Friday, September 1st, 2006, 8:39 AM)
Umm ok eddie, I read your first reply to point #1, concerning preflop raising. The reason you should raise more, is because you make more money. If you know you're going to be called for 4x, just as you were for 3x, why not extract value?
i dont think its a bad idea but he said that he'll raise 3xBB with JJ and below and AK and AQ, but then if he gets a great hand, like AA-QQ he says he raises to 4xBB. I always raise 3xBB unless there are some lipers in their and if I raise 4xBB with big pairs people will pick up on it and ill loxe money
Tell you what eddie... Your great. You played each of these hands perfectly and are ready to turn pro.
Your arrogance will be your downfall though champ. Good luck.
Your arrogance will be your downfall though champ. Good luck.
QUOTE (XXEddie @ Friday, September 1st, 2006, 1:34 PM)
i dont think its a bad idea but he said that he'll raise 3xBB with JJ and below and AK and AQ, but then if he gets a great hand, like AA-QQ he says he raises to 4xBB. I always raise 3xBB unless there are some lipers in their and if I raise 4xBB with big pairs people will pick up on it and ill loxe money
Play in looser games.
I raise 4x minimum and I get a ton of calls. With a limper or two in front, I'll make it 5x/6x and still get a ton of calls.
It's pure value baby.
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