BeaverStyle
Tuesday, August 22nd, 2006, 8:46 AM
Ok, so we're about 3-4 hands in, and i have no read on villain.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed)
Hand History Converter Tool from
FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)
MP2 (t1530)
MP3 (t1520)
CO (t1020)
Hero (t1470)
SB (t1480)
BB (t2000)
UTG (t1480)
UTG+1 (t1500)
MP1 (t1500)
Preflop: Hero is Button with Q

, A

.
2 folds, MP1 calls t20,
1 fold, MP3 calls t20,
1 fold,
Hero raises to t100,
2 folds, MP1 folds, MP3 calls t80.
Flop: (t250) 9

, 2

, J
(2 players)MP3 bets t100, Hero calls t100.
Should I have raised there, or try to make my hand cheaply and not get all my money in w/ A high...Turn: (t450) 8
(2 players)MP3 bets t380, Hero calls t380.
I almost folded here, but I figured he could have a hand like 10 J or KJ and my Q and A could be good as well as the flush.... River: (t1210) J
(2 players)MP3 bets t860, Hero folds.
Even if he's bluffing a missed draw, the way I played it, I can't call.Final Pot: t2070
I think I played the hand too passively. What do YOU think?
throwemaway
Tuesday, August 22nd, 2006, 8:54 AM
Raise the flop to 350
WolvenASE
Tuesday, August 22nd, 2006, 9:18 AM
Raise preflop is fine. No reason to raise anything more than that this early. There's not that much in the blinds to risk that much in a larger raise.
I think on the flop, calling is a good option to make, but I would personally raise while we may still have some fold equity to pick up the pot right here.
Playing along with the line you took, and since we didn't raise the flop, I think I'd just call on the turn as well. Right now, at this point, I would put our villain on something like A9 or K9 suited.
River is an obvious fold. Calling, or pushing in, isn't even an option, since he'd have the odds to call at that point, and he'd pretty much committ himself in with his pair.
I believe the mistake here was not raising the flop, because continuing to be the agressor may also give you that chance to peel a free card off on the turn if he happens to slow down and let you take control of the pot again.
Actuary
Tuesday, August 22nd, 2006, 9:41 AM
A raise to 350 on the flop committs us if he pushes.
And it probably does not win us the pot.
If we push the flop and he folds his pair 15% of the time, then we only need the 9 outs of the flush essentially, to have the right odds. Often we have more than 9 outs; however, that comprises the 15%. His calling range is weighted to sets and two pair and somewhat (obviously, still mostly 1 pair). Still, I'd make this push a lot early on
More often than not, I call the flop and fold the turn
Our draw is quite transparent.
And how much can we expect to make on a spade river or willing raise on an A/Q river?
Gallo
Tuesday, August 22nd, 2006, 10:39 AM
QUOTE (throwemaway @ Tuesday, August 22nd, 2006, 11:54 AM)

Raise the flop to 350
This is defintely one of problems when something like this flops. There are times I push and other times I play it like the OP. And if you raise to 350 and villain comes over the top--call or fold?
Actuary
Tuesday, August 22nd, 2006, 10:42 AM
QUOTE (Gallo @ Tuesday, August 22nd, 2006, 10:39 AM)

This is defintely one of problems when something like this flops. There are times I push and other times I play it like the OP. And if you raise to 350 and villain comes over the top--call or fold?
you'd have odds to call.
thus, Push is better than raise imo.
And call is my favorite for the price he gave us.
Gallo
Tuesday, August 22nd, 2006, 10:44 AM
QUOTE (Actuary @ Tuesday, August 22nd, 2006, 12:41 PM)

A raise to 350 on the flop committs us if he pushes.
And it probably does not win us the pot.
That's my thing in an sng a raise to 350 basically commits us to the pot anyway.
I have no problem pushing, even if he has a pair there. I figure if I catch then I've doubled up, people see my cards and a little less tedious to mess with me. If I miss and am out, oh well, on to the next.
But like I said, there are times that I do just call rather than push. Which would be the preferred play?
BeaverStyle
Tuesday, August 22nd, 2006, 11:05 AM
when this hand went down, I thought the call on the flop was fine.
I also agree that the only other play is pushing, folding obviously is not an option.
The turn is what I'd really like to address:
Folding: I'm probably behind, and this early on, I don't need to risk 1/3 my stack on an Ace high draw (with catching the Q or A as a possible win)
Calling: he's giving us >2-1 pot odds, and I think it's not a bad play to simply try to hit, and get out if we miss.
Pushing: He's probably not folding, so why push when I need to hit to win the hand, when if i simply call, I can fold to a bet on the river, and I still have chips.
Gallo
Tuesday, August 22nd, 2006, 11:13 AM
QUOTE (BeaverStyle @ Tuesday, August 22nd, 2006, 2:05 PM)

when this hand went down, I thought the call on the flop was fine.
I also agree that the only other play is pushing, folding obviously is not an option.
The turn is what I'd really like to address:
Folding: I'm probably behind, and this early on, I don't need to risk 1/3 my stack on an Ace high draw (with catching the Q or A as a possible win)
Calling: he's giving us >2-1 pot odds, and I think it's not a bad play to simply try to hit, and get out if we miss.
Pushing: He's probably not folding, so why push when I need to hit to win the hand, when if i simply call, I can fold to a bet on the river, and I still have chips.
I hate it because most of the at these stakes the villain is calling with some stuoid hand like 9/3off
mk
Tuesday, August 22nd, 2006, 11:15 AM
in a mtt, i raise the flop and have no problem getting it all in on the flop or turn. in a stt, i probably take a more cautious route and just call the flop and fold the turn u/i.
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