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Full Version: Bottom Set - Passive Or Genius
FCP Poker Forum > Poker Strategy Forum > No Limit Texas Hold'em Cash Games
Zach6668
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)

BB ($30.75)
UTG ($58.90)
UTG+1 ($80.30)
MP1 ($17.50)
MP2 ($34.20)
Hero ($60.50)
Button ($65.75)
SB ($24.30)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 3 icon_suit_diamond.gif , 3 icon_suit_club.gif .
3 folds, MP2 calls $0.50, Hero calls $0.50, Button calls $0.50, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($2.50) 4 icon_suit_spade.gif , 7 icon_suit_heart.gif , 3 icon_suit_spade.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets $2, Button folds, SB calls $2, BB folds, MP2 folds.

Turn: ($6.50) A icon_suit_spade.gif (2 players)
SB bets $3, Hero calls $3.

River: ($12.50) T icon_suit_club.gif (2 players)
SB bets $18.8 (All-In), Hero calls $18.80.

Final Pot: $50.10


Any thoughts?

Villian is relatively unknown, only 22 hands on him at the time. He's 50/0/1.75.

My stats are 17/6/2.6 over 102 hands at the table, but I'm sure he didn't notice.

I'm sure flop is standard, if not, then I'll quit NL.

Turn is interesting. He's relatively low, leaving about $18 behind, if I raise, I'm committed to a push if he has the flush. If he's drawing to a flush, I want to charge him though.

Any value in calling, hoping for him to continue his bluff/value bet of a weaker hand on the river? If another spade falls, I can safely fold, I think.

River is an easy call?

All help appreciated for this newb (who's luckboxing his way to 30 ptbb/100 over 1k hands, sustainable, right? tongue.gif)
crankin
Given that he's 50% VP$IP, did you consider the flopped straight?

It may not be a popular idea, but I'd consider the dreaded min-raise on the turn. If he hit his flush, he'll probably put you in on the turn, and you could safely fold. If he just calls and then pushes on that river, you've got an easy call. The downside is that given you're min-raise, he may not bluff at the pot on the river.

So, it really comes down to how good a read you had on him. If you don't think there's a decent chance that he has the flush (or the straight), then it's a clear call.
iggymcfly
I don't put him on a flush given this action. Usually, I'd raise up the turn to charge the flush draw, and then push the river in case he's got a pair with it, but if you think he's aggressive enough to do this himself on a non-spade river, then this is certainly fine. I'd say the river is a bluff close to 80% of the time, (maybe even higher?), so yes the call's perfectly standard.

Nice hand.


Oh, and to the previous respondent, I'll min-raise that set and fold to a push when you pry the laptop from my cold dead hands. Even against the nut flush, we have ten outs, and a loose villian could push that turn with a lot of hands other than a set or a flush. I think the only line worse than raising the turn and folding to a push would be to just fold to the initial bet to begin with.
nomad_monad
this is kinda read dependent.
but i see a lot of guys with similar stats, and one thing that almost all of them seem to do is c/r the turn when they hit their draw. they almost never lead... unless they caught a redraw. so typically i raise here and am fine with stacking off if facing a push.

crankin, minraising here is just a bad idea. if this is a draw, he calls the minraise getting the right direct odds. it's just like calling his self-priced in lead, except the pot is now bigger, you still don't have visibility (since he could just flat call w/the flush as well, not unlikely if he's inclined to weak lead it like this), and now he never bluffs if he misses. also, because the minraise could be construed as weak, he may still come over the top of it with just a draw.
crankin
QUOTE (nomad_monad @ Saturday, August 12th, 2006, 3:19 AM) *
crankin, minraising here is just a bad idea. if this is a draw, he calls the minraise getting the right direct odds. it's just like calling his self-priced in lead, except the pot is now bigger, you still don't have visibility (since he could just flat call w/the flush as well, not unlikely if he's inclined to weak lead it like this), and now he never bluffs if he misses. also, because the minraise could be construed as weak, he may still come over the top of it with just a draw.


Are you giving any consideration to the limits being played here? I'll grant you that this is how a lot of donks bluff off there chips. However, I've also seen a lot of players at these limits play made hands this way as well. They slow play it early and then push hard on the river. This is also how they donk off their chips when the board pairs the river (as they don't give any credit to the boat).

I still really wanna raise this turn. If you don't min-raise, you are basically pot comitted (do you want that?). If you just call, you are still in the dark on what the villain has. So, we stack off with no good idea of whether we are beat.

It would be interesting to see everyone's opinion if the villian had a normal size stack and still pushed.
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