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FCP Poker Forum > Poker Strategy Forum > No Limit Texas Hold'em Cash Games
Zach6668
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)

Hero ($53.40)
MP2 ($28.05)
MP3 ($13.60)
CO ($24.30)
Button ($50.80)
SB ($14.05)
BB ($31.65)
UTG ($30.05)
UTG+1 ($40.65)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J icon_suit_club.gif , J icon_suit_diamond.gif .
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, 1 fold, MP3 raises to $1.25, 2 folds, SB calls $1.15, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.50.

Flop: ($4) 4 icon_suit_heart.gif , Q icon_suit_club.gif , 6 icon_suit_heart.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2, MP3 calls $2, SB folds.

Turn: ($8) K icon_suit_diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $4...

Who hates it?

He has about $10 behind here, so if he were to push, we'd be getting about 16:6 to call. Do we call a push?

What about preflop? If he was deeper, would we put in another raise PF? With the other coldcaller, I think calling is the best play, however.

With respect to the flop, does anyone c/c or c/r? I figured I'd b/f'ing here.

We cool?
coremiller
when he min-reraises, what are we making his range? Without a specific read, and assuming normal 25NL donkiness, it's probably something like 1010-AA, AQ, AK, and that's being generous (1010 is less likely, for example). The only one of those you currently beat is 1010 (his least likely holding). Given that range, I almost certainly will fold to a push.


I don't mind b/f the flop, but you have to beat more, at least $3, because you want him folding AK here, or at least making a bigger mistake by calling with it. plus, if he has you beat, you want to find out now, so you can make your decision now and not have to worry about how to play the turn OOP.

i do hate betting the turn, because there's very little he could hold that you beat once he calls the flop. what value is there to a bet here?

now, if you've been raising very loosely, this might be his donkish way of playing back at you. or, if you've seen him make this play before without premium holdings, you can expand his range. then you can at least consider calling a push, although with two overcards on the board it's probably still a fold without a read. but it's closer.
Scott3705
I'd bet 5. and it's still probably a fold if he comes over the top. You are never ahead if he comes over the top against two paint cards here.

flOp I'd bet 3. and it's honestly a closer call if some one comes over the top there. Probably still a fold but closer.
fckthis
Tough spot. I dont know how else to play this, other than possibly check/folding turn.
crankin
QUOTE (coremiller @ Thursday, August 10th, 2006, 12:39 AM) *
i do hate betting the turn, because there's very little he could hold that you beat once he calls the flop.


QFT
krup24
QUOTE (coremiller @ Wednesday, August 9th, 2006, 9:39 PM) *
i do hate betting the turn, because there's very little he could hold that you beat once he calls the flop. what value is there to a bet here?



This can easily be a flush draw or TT. I like a B/F on the turn. If he calls we take a stab at the river.
Naismith
I think we bet too small on the flop. If we bet closer to the pot and he called, I think we might be able to rule out AK and, with just a smooth call, possibly consider a pair under ours. As it is, I don't think we can really rule out any hand.

Literally, this could be an underpair, this could be top set, this could be slowplayed AA, this could be AK. I agree that if he comes over the top, we're done with this hand.

QUOTE (krup24 @ Thursday, August 10th, 2006, 8:44 AM) *
This can easily be a flush draw or TT. I like a B/F on the turn. If he calls we take a stab at the river.


Why are we taking a stab at the river if he calls? We only *possibly* get called by TT. Every other hand that calls a bet beats us. Everything we beat folds. I would think if he calls this turn, it's an easy check-call on the river, hoping he has something like AJ suited.

Betting doesn't seem to accomplish anything here.
iggymcfly
I don't like leading into the PF reraiser without a monster. Especially at the micro limits where the min-reraise means "I have AA", not "I have A7 and I'd like you to think it's AA". I'd probably check/call the flop and check/fold the turn, even without the king.

(Note: The purpose of the c/c on the flop is to win at showdown if he fires one shell and then checks it down or checks the turn and bets the river. We're not just drawing to try to hit our two outer.)
krup24
QUOTE (Naismith @ Thursday, August 10th, 2006, 9:30 AM) *
Why are we taking a stab at the river if he calls? We only *possibly* get called by TT. Every other hand that calls a bet beats us. Everything we beat folds. I would think if he calls this turn, it's an easy check-call on the river, hoping he has something like AJ suited.

Betting doesn't seem to accomplish anything here.


We take a stab so that he can't push the river and make us fold the best hand. But since villian is short which I didn't notice a C/C would be fine.
coremiller
QUOTE (krup24 @ Thursday, August 10th, 2006, 2:58 PM) *
We take a stab so that he can't push the river and make us fold the best hand. But since villian is short which I didn't notice a C/C would be fine.


how often do you think this scenario applies? what range are you putting the villian on that we could still be ahead of at this point? sure, it could be a flush draw or TT, but most of the time it's not.

and if he does have AJs, he never bets this river. a player aggressive enough to bet the river with that holding would have raised our weak flop lead with his nut flush + over. and if he does have AJ, then we should check the river anyway to hopefully get a free showdown.

more likely, with your line, we bet the river and he calls and turns over AA or QQ or AK or KK or whatever and we double him up. betting the river here is throwing money away.
pokerplayer24
I think you need to put in another raise preflop with JJ especially with the SB's cold call.
Zach6668
QUOTE (pokerplayer24 @ Thursday, August 10th, 2006, 6:10 PM) *
I think you need to put in another raise preflop with JJ especially with the SB's cold call.

I was thinking that because of the cold caller, that just calling, and seeing the flop would be bettter. No?
pokerplayer24
QUOTE (Zach6668 @ Thursday, August 10th, 2006, 9:22 PM) *
I was thinking that because of the cold caller, that just calling, and seeing the flop would be bettter. No?


Why?

Its either dead money or you'll find out real quick that he has a monster.
Zach6668
QUOTE (pokerplayer24 @ Friday, August 11th, 2006, 3:29 AM) *
Why?

Its either dead money or you'll find out real quick that he has a monster.


Yeah, this makes sense. Remember. I'm scared money for the rest of the month. tongue.gif
crankin
QUOTE (pokerplayer24 @ Thursday, August 10th, 2006, 5:10 PM) *
I think you need to put in another raise preflop with JJ especially with the SB's cold call.

I really don't like this, particularly at a full-ring game. In a 5-handed or 6-handed game, I'd agree. Other than an occassional play to mix things up, JJ is not a hand to re-raise with when your original raise is re-raised and that re-raise gets a smooth call. I really think re-raising in this spot is spewing money.
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